Chamber too large to save brass???

[mustanggt]

My Uncle gave me a Type 38 Arisaka in 6.5x50. He also gave me some Norma factory ammo with it. Upon firing the primers backed out quite a ways and the head started the telltale signs of seperation. I have some new Prvi brass to make loads for but am considering not even to bother with it only to have to throw them away. With that brass what can I do to not have that happen to them? Thank you

[BK7saum]

If the chamber is just long and not to over sized, you can seat the bullet long into the lands for the first firing and that will prevent them from stretching in the web.

[Echo]

You could run the cases up into a 7mm spindle to enlarge the neck, then run them up a little bit into the 6.5 die, a little bit at a time, checking to see if they would chamber. Shouldn't chamber before resizing, but you can find the right amount of neck sizing to just let them chamber. Fireform, and just neck size in the future.
This is the way I managed to shoot my 8mm M98 that had headspace. Ran them up into a 33 M-die, then successively neck-sized until they would chamber.

[BK7saum]

Yep, another option. I've created the false shoulder to fireforming as well

[country gent]

Some of the German and japanese rifles made late in the war were pretty rough alot of corners were cut and quality went down. Necking up 1-2 calibers and forming down to leave a false shoulder where the bolt closes snugly on the case may help with this I suspect a long chamber with primers backing out. Large chamber with correct headspace may split case longitudanally nut there is no primer back out. Measure some of the fired brass case head to shoulder ( drill a hole in a piece of flat stock or the flat of a 3/4" nut .030-.060 bigger than the necks dia) use this to compare fired shoulders to new loaded ammo or new cases. It wont be a actual size of headspace but a comparisson between the cases. A good set of calipers will tell the story here, and give you an idea what needs to be done. The case being tapered and chamber tapered makes a measurement the with case backing out hard. Around a 5/16" hole should work a light chamfer to break sharp edge so it sets solid out on the shoulder not on the neck shoulder junction.

[runfiverun]

and once you get them there don't go full length sizing them, ruining all your work.
you can also do a low pressure fire forming which will get you most of the way there gently.
4-5 grs of pistol powder and some cream of wheat usually does the trick.

[Mk42gunner]

Are you sure it is still a 6.5x50? An awful lot of them got punched out to 6.5x.257 Roberts due to brass availability.

Robert

[mustanggt]

Thanks for the replies fellas. I've got some Roberts brass so I can try that. 7mm is a real stretch so by the brass not separating on any of the cartridges I shot I'm thinking maybe not. What do you think?

[Leslie Sapp]

On top of the oversized chambers, Norma has in the past made some ammo for these guns that was notoriously undersized.
I had a similar issue with a 1939 issued 7.7 Arisaka. Try a different brand of brass and neck size only, I'll bet it will help.

[mustanggt]

I've used PRVI brass in my Type 99 and never had a problem with brass stretch like in this Type 38. So hopefully that brass will do better as well.

[EDG]

I have some of both Norma and PPU brass and they are the same size at the head.
Ithink the Japanese were too influenced by the British when they adopted the 6.5 round because the 6.5 and the .303 have the same sloppy chambers.
The 6.5 Jap chambers are about .452 to .454 at the back end.
The simple fix is don't use factory brass.

Use US made .303 British brass. Polish the back end of a spare FL die body to match your chamber. Then trim and form the .303 brass to fit your chamber. You will also have to cut the rim down to fit the bolt face. Your bolt face may be much larger than the Norma and PPU brass so no need to cut it that small. Just fit it to the bolt.

The .303 case is long enough to be formed so that it will headspace properly on the shoulder. The base of the .303 case is large enough to fit the chamber without leaving that huge bulge.

[mustanggt]

Well I finally have some time to devote to this endevour. I tried to chamber a 257 Roberts and it was a no go. I then tried seating a bullet out as far as I could to contact the lands and it barely holds the bullet. I'm using 160gr RN Hornady, the longest bullet in that caliber. The length is roughly 3.175. It wouldn't hold it very securely at all. So I had to seat them .010" less to 3.165. I'm using a starting load of IMR4350 at 32.7gr for 2100fps. I don't care about anything else but seeing if loading this way will safely stretch the brass and leave me something usable for the future.

[Gtek]

A pound cast and quit guessing would be my next move. The over sizing of neck and then bumping is my favorite, a case head separation can be life changing!

[BK7saum]

I agree. If the case won't securely hold the bullet to reach the lands, then size the necks up to 7mm, then size back down in your die a little at a time until the bolt just closes with a bit of resistance. Load and fire away.

[leadman]

If it were my gun I would load it with about 15grs of Unique or similar, fill the remainder of the case with Cream of Wheat cereal, and put a wax plug in the neck to keep everything inside. Shooting it straight up is the best if you have a place you can do this, firing it horizontal will work.
If the shoulder of the brass is not sharply formed increase the powder a grain at a time until it is, but 15grs will probably do it. Just neck size and load. The extractor will keep the case back against the bolt unless it is stretched some like mine was. A small hammer on the claw tighten it up to keep the case on the bolt face.

[Donor8x56r]

Norma brass you say? Every older Norma brass lot I tried had this bulge.I did 4 calibers,all the same result.PPU brass on other hand didn't have it at all.
Norma is very long lasting brass and can be very accurate but size wise it's a tad too small in my rifles.Maybe newer lots are different?

[destrux]

I had the same issue (well, my dad did) years ago with norma brass in my Arisaka, and it was set aside for years considered unsafe to fire by him. Only to find out later that it was fine with Hornady brass.