Duplicating Federal Flight Control wads

[GEOMETRIC]

My opinion isn't the last word on anything. I have been wrong before & will surely be wrong again if I live long enough. I hand cast "OOO" & 0.35 cal. buck from hard alloy. Yea, you can kill deer & hogs with #1 buck. I have done it a number of times (deer). My personal experience has been the bigger pellets kill much more consistently. They are a win win option. The only way you can know what any buckshot load will do is to shoot it & see. However, in my experience with buckshot from 1961 to present, the bigger numbers track straighter. This generally results in the same number of a bigger pellet striking the target, a win win!
I have never shot a wild hog with buckshot & never will. I have killed a lot of hogs with a rifle & have witnessed a lot of hogs being shot with buckshot by others. I can recall one small boar (100 lbs. or so) that was shot 3 times in the head with #1 buckshot at point blank range before going down. I have never seen a clean one shot kill on a hog with buckshot. Maybe you have but I never did. Typically, it takes more than one shot & then they don't die right away. I have seen many more shot that didn't go down at all & that is why I don't use buckshot on hogs. So how did "Bubba" know the deer was past 50 yds.? Did he measure the distance or just guess at it? My experience is that experienced hunters usually know when game is in their "kill zone" but if you ask them how far it is, they usually get it wrong. How many deer did he shoot that he didn't recover? People tend to remember the good shots but forget the ones that ran off wounded.

[Blood Trail]

My opinion isn't the last word on anything. I have been wrong before & will surely be wrong again if I live long enough. I hand cast "OOO" & 0.35 cal. buck from hard alloy. Yea, you can kill deer & hogs with #1 buck. I have done it a number of times (deer). My personal experience has been the bigger pellets kill much more consistently. They are a win win option. The only way you can know what any buckshot load will do is to shoot it & see. However, in my experience with buckshot from 1961 to present, the bigger numbers track straighter. This generally results in the same number of a bigger pellet striking the target, a win win!
I have never shot a wild hog with buckshot & never will. I have killed a lot of hogs with a rifle & have witnessed a lot of hogs being shot with buckshot by others. I can recall one small boar (100 lbs. or so) that was shot 3 times in the head with #1 buckshot at point blank range before going down. I have never seen a clean one shot kill on a hog with buckshot. Maybe you have but I never did. Typically, it takes more than one shot & then they don't die right away. I have seen many more shot that didn't go down at all & that is why I don't use buckshot on hogs. So how did "Bubba" know the deer was past 50 yds.? Did he measure the distance or just guess at it? My experience is that experienced hunters usually know when game is in their "kill zone" but if you ask them how far it is, they usually get it wrong. How many deer did he shoot that he didn't recover? People tend to remember the good shots but forget the ones that ran off wounded.

3 times in the head to kill it? Dang. I bring my Ruger .22 MK3 when I trap hogs. One shot to the brain housing group is all it takes. However, you’ll have your outliers from time to time. What it boils down to shot placement, I don’t care if it’s a .375 HH or a bow and arrow. I shoot a lot hogs year round and I’m really digging buckshot, that that’s just me.

We do a lot of helo hunts here. When using a shotgun, buckshot is all we use.

As far as Wade Rush, go check his channel out on YouTube. He’s got quite a few posted buckshot deer hunts. Go see for yourself.


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[Blood Trail]

I wish this site had some sort of "like" button where you could show your appreciation without needing to comment. Nice work BT!

Kraken Fan #69

Ha! Thanks brother!


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[faustus]

Wow .... now that is what I call a buckshot pattern! Great!
BllodTrail, did you make any changes to the pt1265 wad?

And how was the shell loaded .... with what components?

[Blood Trail]

Wow .... now that is what I call a buckshot pattern! Great!
BllodTrail, did you make any changes to the pt1265 wad?

And how was the shell loaded .... with what components?

No changes at all besides adding a 20 ga cork wad in the bottom of the wad and adding 12 grs of buffer. I have a video that I’m in the process of editing now. The velocity was a hair over 1400 fps.

I suppose if I pull the velocity back to around 1350, it would pattern tighter.


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[faustus]

No changes at all besides adding a 20 ga cork wad in the bottom of the wad and adding 12 grs of buffer.

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And the pt1265 wad is an unslit wad ... right?

[faustus]

Ok, it is my understanding that when shooting buckshot in unslit wads .... that they have a tendency to tumble and they risk to turn around and basically become a slug. Or at least there is the risk of this happening ....

So, I was thinking .... has anybody tried something like this? And this is only a thought for now .... ok maybe a crazy thought .... lol ...

Anybody know of that concept being applied by somebody in some sort of form?

The idea is to add some sort of tail to the wad ... and which will created drag ... and to stabilize the wad during flight and to allow it to cleanly release the buckshot.

[Blood Trail]

Ok, it is my understanding that when shooting buckshot in unslit wads .... that they have a tendency to tumble and they risk to turn around and basically become a slug. Or at least there is the risk of this happening ....

So, I was thinking .... has anybody tried something like this? And this is only a thought for now .... ok maybe a crazy thought .... lol ...

Anybody know of that concept being applied by somebody in some sort of form?

The idea is to add some sort of tail to the wad ... and which will created drag ... and to stabilize the wad during flight and to allow it to cleanly release the buckshot.

I slit wads will tumble. And funny you mentioned the kite tail. I’ve been research material that would stand up to the hot gases while being fired.


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[faustus]

I was thinking about adding some cotton patches as a tail and to protect them with a gas seal .....
hey cotton has been used in muzzle loaders for hundreds of years .....

[GEOMETRIC]

O.K., I hear you talking but I'm going to have to ring the BS gong on this one. "One shot in the brain housing group", could you be more specific about that? Why would anybody carry a small game rifle on a big game hunt? Sure, a surgically placed bullet from a .22 short can kill a hog. Most wildlife departments have a minimum requirement for rifles used to hunt big game but in general, hogs are not considered game. It is really easy to achieve surgical bullet placement on a pig in a pen but not usually so easy in the real world. It is likewise much easier to kill a first or second generation wild piglet than a really bad boar that can approach 500 pounds. I would like to see you try to stop the 400 +/- pound boar that I shot 7 times through the heart & lung area with a .32 Win., with your pitiful little .22 squirrel rifle. He was literally shot to pieces before he went down & that is just one example among many. Also, don't lecture me about bullet placement. I killed my first deer (with buckshot) back in the early 1960's & since then I have amassed a 60 year record of primarily instant one shot kills on deer & wild hogs with everything from buckshot to modern .45-70 high end loads, which includes the patched round ball & the .44 mag. handgun.
What I say is based on field experience under hunting conditions, not something somebody said in a video or something some self proclaimed expert says to try to sell something or shooting a piglet in a pen. Should your experience be different, fine but I will base what I think & do on the best evidence available & actual field experience under actual hunting conditions. It seems that everybody that has killed a few pigs becomes an instant expert.
The best authority on the subject that I know of is the inventor of the "Dixie Tri-Ball". James is no longer with us but you can read some of his posts on here.

[Blood Trail]

O.K., I hear you talking but I'm going to have to ring the BS gong on this one. "One shot in the brain housing group", could you be more specific about that? Why would anybody carry a small game rifle on a big game hunt? Sure, a surgically placed bullet from a .22 short can kill a hog. Most wildlife departments have a minimum requirement for rifles used to hunt big game but in general, hogs are not considered game. It is really easy to achieve surgical bullet placement on a pig in a pen but not usually so easy in the real world. It is likewise much easier to kill a first or second generation wild piglet than a really bad boar that can approach 500 pounds. I would like to see you try to stop the 400 +/- pound boar that I shot 7 times through the heart & lung area with a .32 Win., with your pitiful little .22 squirrel rifle. He was literally shot to pieces before he went down & that is just one example among many. Also, don't lecture me about bullet placement. I killed my first deer (with buckshot) back in the early 1960's & since then I have amassed a 60 year record of primarily instant one shot kills on deer & wild hogs with everything from buckshot to modern .45-70 high end loads, which includes the patched round ball & the .44 mag. handgun.
What I say is based on field experience under hunting conditions, not something somebody said in a video or something some self proclaimed expert says to try to sell something or shooting a piglet in a pen. Should your experience be different, fine but I will base what I think & do on the best evidence available & actual field experience under actual hunting conditions. It seems that everybody that has killed a few pigs becomes an instant expert.
The best authority on the subject that I know of is the inventor of the "Dixie Tri-Ball". James is no longer with us but you can read some of his posts on here.

Easy killer, I never said I hunted hogs with a .22. Reading comprehension is key here. I said when I’m trapping, I bring my .22 to dispatch hogs. They drop like a sack of taters if I do my part, which is the majority of the time. Same thing happens with 2,000 cattle. They don’t know what hits them.

Hunt with whatever you see fit, but don’t make blanket statements if you never “field tested” that particular size buckshot in the field. You said #1 using adequate for deer. I say you’re wrong.

You said it took 3 rounds to the head of X sized buckshot to kill a pig. If you wanna call bs on anything, I’d probably start there.

BTW, feral hogs rarely reach 500 lbs and even 300 lb’ers are hard to come by. Just a friendly observation.

[GEOMETRIC]

faustus,
That is an interesting idea (the tail thing). The above referenced buckshot pattern is a good pattern but nothing extraordinary. Remember, buck shot is a close range preposition. The tightest pattern is not always the best pattern & can cause a miss.
When I was a pup, long before I started my own business, I worked for a "Fortune 500" Engineering / Architectural co. aka: A&E co.. Like most everybody else that has gone through the infatuation & mystique of the elusive ultra tight buckshot pattern, I was bitten by the bug. I have 5, SXS 10 ga. shotguns. Three of which are 3.5" 10 ga. magnums. I would grab one or more of my guns as soon as I got home & run to my test range & shoot patterns on average of 3 or more days a week for a number of years. The pattern testing still continues. I patterned my 10 ga. buckshot loads at 60 yds. & patterns of "000" buckshot in which you could cover 8 pellets with one hand were common. Among other things I learned are that buckshot has a very poor ballistic coefficient & regardless of pattern, that alone limits it's range. A slug or a large caliber round ball has a better ballistic coefficient & always produces a 100% pattern with the Tri-Ball being somewhere inbetween. James has posted data for reloading the Tri-Ball on here. I hope I don't come off as a "know it all SOB" as I am still very much the student. I am all ears if you have something to teach us.
I never did any testing but have often thought of the tail concept. It is essentially an air brake. The wheels are turning & I see how it could have applications to problems of loading hard shot, like Hevi-Shot, through the choke restriction of a muzzle loader.

[GEOMETRIC]

Blood Trail,
I have no intention of arguing with you or getting into a P-P'N contest. Should you want to discredit what I say you are going to have to do better. Regarding reading comprehension, have you ever taken a reading comprehension test? I have & I scored at the top of my class. Also, since we are on the subject, you need to work on your English grammar.

[Blood Trail]

Blood Trail,
I have no intention of arguing with you or getting into a P-P'N contest. Should you want to discredit what I say you are going to have to do better. Regarding reading comprehension, have you ever taken a reading comprehension test? I have & I scored at the top of my class. Also, since we are on the subject, you need to work on your English grammar.

Should be:
“Should you want to discredit what I say(insert comma here), you are going to have to do better.”
Now what were you saying about English grammar?

Speaking of academic credentials, I have that fancy piece of paper (Cum Laude, but that’s either here or there). I also work for a Fortune 500 company (Lockheed Martin. You may have heard of us. Think F-16, F-35, and F-22. ).

Anyway, not sure what that has to do with the price of tea in China, we’re talking reloading here, bud.

Not sure why you got in a tissy-fit, I never doubted your superior skills as a great hunter, I merely suggested that you are incorrect about #1 buck inadequate for deer-sized game.

If it’s all the same to you, I’ll just keep my focus on the topic at hand and we can agree to disagree and leave personal insults out of this. Really, it’s not a good look.

Hope you enjoy the rest of the day and I’m sincerely sorry for any heartburn I may have caused over this topic.

Sincerely,

An edumacated Black Country Boy Redneck






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[GEOMETRIC]

Blood Trail,
It really doesn't matter as arguing with someone that presents no facts but keeps responding with undocumented claims can never be won. So Lockheed Martin sent you to school & you got a degree. I'm proud of you & I agree with you,"I'm not sure what that has to do with the price of tea in China" either. You are taking those statements totally out of context & when I said that it was on a totally different topic responding to someone else, not you. Actually, I never said I have a college degree but for your information I do. A degree guarantees nothing but it is a good thing. The grad students at the engineering school I attended defined a college professor as one that is educated well beyond his I.Q. That was said "tongue in cheek" but there is a little bit of truth in everything.
Sorry if it disappoints you but nobody I know of is in a tissy fit. I was just trying to share 60 years of experience hunting with buckshot. I could be wrong but I don't think so. Tests conducted by the FBI & other law enforcement agencies have shown "OO" buck to be more effective for law enforcement & self defense against bad guys than smaller sizes & a deer is much harder to kill than a man. Should you want to prevail in a debate you have to base your arguments on fact, experience & sound judgement. I would like to hear any facts on the subject that you have but please don't tell me about what "BUBBA" said in a video.

[Hogtamer]

I loaded several hundred of the flite control wads that I got from fellow mentioned earlier who de-milled factory reject loads from various manufacturers for the components. Even used factory specs as he weighed the powder (32 gr longshot) and the shot 8 - 00. Long story short finally got "perfect" results using something else entirely. They too used the pt1265. Here's the thread with data and results. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...hot-PERFECTION! No deer in Ga. at least will tote this far if you put it toward his front end. Pellets rarely pass through but typically just under opposite side skin. All the energy of the load is expended in the animal and nothing wasted. But any gun is "grocery shopping" compared to my preferred means of killing. Still getting luckey once in a while too.
Attachment 212665
Attachment 212666

[Blood Trail]

Blood Trail,
It really doesn't matter as arguing with someone that presents no facts but keeps responding with undocumented claims can never be won. So Lockheed Martin sent you to school & you got a degree. I'm proud of you & I agree with you,"I'm not sure what that has to do with the price of tea in China" either. You are taking those statements totally out of context & when I said that it was on a totally different topic responding to someone else, not you. Actually, I never said I have a college degree but for your information I do. A degree guarantees nothing but it is a good thing. The grad students at the engineering school I attended defined a college professor as one that is educated well beyond his I.Q. That was said "tongue in cheek" but there is a little bit of truth in everything.
Sorry if it disappoints you but nobody I know of is in a tissy fit. I was just trying to share 60 years of experience hunting with buckshot. I could be wrong but I don't think so. Tests conducted by the FBI & other law enforcement agencies have shown "OO" buck to be more effective for law enforcement & self defense against bad guys than smaller sizes & a deer is much harder to kill than a man. Should you want to prevail in a debate you have to base your arguments on fact, experience & sound judgement. I would like to hear any facts on the subject that you have but please don't tell me about what "BUBBA" said in a video.

Lockheed sent me to college? News to me. You know what they say about assuming. I earned my right to this little awesome program called the GI Bill after 10 faithful years of serving in the Marine Corps.

As for facts about #1 buckshot killing deer at considerable distances, if actual videos of said actions don’t represent facts, then I don’t know what to tell you.

Did you know a lot of PD’s have moved to #4 buck?

And deer being harder to kill than a man, interesting.

But it’s all good. No harm, no foul.



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[Blood Trail]

I loaded several hundred of the flite control wads that I got from fellow mentioned earlier who de-milled factory reject loads from various manufacturers for the components. Even used factory specs as he weighed the powder (32 gr longshot) and the shot 8 - 00. Long story short finally got "perfect" results using something else entirely. They too used the pt1265. Here's the thread with data and results. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...hot-PERFECTION! No deer in Ga. at least will tote this far if you put it toward his front end. Pellets rarely pass through but typically just under opposite side skin. All the energy of the load is expended in the animal and nothing wasted. But any gun is "grocery shopping" compared to my preferred means of killing. Still getting luckey once in a while too.
Attachment 212665
Attachment 212666

HT,

I’m really impressed with the Pt1265 wads. Also, I’m impressed with flight control wads as well.

You know, if you have left, we could possibly work out a trade.




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[Hogtamer]

All mine are loaded. What I found with those things is that pressure must be the critical factor. Some of them performed as advertised and some became a literal wad slug. I shot about 10 a couple of weeks ago as it happens. Perhaps even a certain amount of crimp but if the "fins" don't open what you get is a humongous slug. Perhaps the wads had deteriorated but something caused them to fail that was beyond my manipulating efforts to correct with different powders, hulls and chokes. That load I referenced in that link is the what I tote when I carry buckshot. I've got some OOO loaded too! And some OO. A fellow can't have too much buckshot can he, just in case???? BTW I noticed in the video that you're a right stout fellow BT. No wonder you ain't real recoil sensitive! You tried those Zlugs yet? I wanna see that in your next vid!

[Blood Trail]

All mine are loaded. What I found with those things is that pressure must be the critical factor. Some of them performed as advertised and some became a literal wad slug. I shot about 10 a couple of weeks ago as it happens. Perhaps even a certain amount of crimp but if the "fins" don't open what you get is a humongous slug. Perhaps the wads had deteriorated but something caused them to fail that was beyond my manipulating efforts to correct with different powders, hulls and chokes. That load I referenced in that link is the what I tote when I carry buckshot. I've got some OOO loaded too! And some OO. A fellow can't have too much buckshot can he, just in case???? BTW I noticed in the video that you're a right stout fellow BT. No wonder you ain't real recoil sensitive! You tried those Zlugs yet? I wanna see that in your next vid!

6’1”, 300lbs of pure teddy bear.
Next Range outing will be those beautiful zinc slugs. Might be this weekend, but it is the last weekend for duck hunting. We really got into some birds last weekend.

I would love to get my hands on so flight control wads. I have the notion to buy a bunch of loaded ammo and rob the flight control wads of them.

Anyway, here’s last week’s haul:








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