Physical healing in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Ponder this: Look at how tiny an ant is compared to you and me. Yet, they still have a social network with duties to fulfill. Hard to say exactly what an ant thinks about. You and I, we know what we think about, and are able to think and express ourselves in the abstract, which is kind of what this thread is all about. Faith--nothing you can see or put your finger on exactly. But how tiny are we compared to the planet on which we live, and how big does our planet look from, say, Jupiter? From Pluto? Then you can go on out into space so far that our sun is just a twinkling star, and farther yet you won't be able to see it at all. But here were are, in the totality of things, much, much smaller than an ant. And yet, we exist, are conscious, communicate, and can think abstract thoughts. So where did the thought/concept of God come from, and why do some of us believe in him? That, Sir, is in itself a great miracle and to me proof of Creation. You look for proof, but I and others have given you first hand accounts of what we experienced and witnessed. In a court of law that is called "direct evidence" and is considered the best kind of evidence. You choose to demand documentation of these events. Personally, I find that insulting and your insinuation that it is not so is calling me a liar. The Holy Bible is of itself documentation. I find it odd that someone who entered the thread not to participate but to scoff and question, and to denigrate those contributing, continues to visit. You claim that you believe in God, but doubt his works or his ability to do miraculous healings. Therefore, it is evident that you do not know God, and you are the one who does not tell the truth and is misrepresenting yourself. You are not what or who you say you are. I think what is needed here is the "cold shoulder." You should neither be acknowledged nor answered. Get thee hence. It's so easy and cowardly to hide behind the anonymity of the internet. If you have nothing constructive to contribute---depart.

[DCP]

I find it interesting that some would be insulted to show proof or documentation.
The Roman Catholic church does before the make someone a Saint, they just dont take someone word for it.

Please see my new thread
(Are there Angels among us)

[Blackwater]

Relax JAck... Let me try to clarify. I do not consider what you folks believe as a miracle an actual miracle. Like I pointed out the ministers, and such that I have talked to say they do conduct investigations of these instances just like the catholic church does. I believe that in order to be a miracle there has to be a sickness or such that is documented. You kind folks do not have any documentation and or proof to back up your claims. If you did happen to come across with such documentation I would have no problem believing. You profess to be christians and yet you continue to throw mud at me taunting me asking which master I serve. Unlike what would appear to be some of you I act upon logic, proof and common sense.

I have the right to doubt what has been stated here because there is no absolute proof that there was what I would call an instance of severe sickness. If there was in fact bonified proof of this illness and this ilness was cured I absolutely would believe it.

6bg, nobody denies that you have the right to doubt anything. But when you suddenly appear here, along with some other notorious personalities from the pit, and start demanding "evidence" and "documentation," as so many have there, how is it that you can not understand our reaction and doubts about what you say? And then there's the obvious contradiction of your own words above that you haven't and likely won't deal with.

You're just here to try to disrupt righteous discussion and service. If you weren't, you'd have shown SOME sign of it long before now.

We are under NO obligation to believe your words, when they don't jive with other "evidence" as you put it, of what your real intent truly is. We may be Christian, but we are NOT dumb, sir.

Nobody here has the time to waste pointing out evidence just so you can then deny it at will. So I guess that makes it YOUR problem to find the evidence, just like all of US did, doesn't it? How is THAT not FAIR?

[cbashooter]

God grants prayers that are rendered up in sincerity and need. He does NOT appreciate "being tested." If you had any knowledge of what you're spouting off about, you'd know that. But you don't, and yet you continue! What an absolutely STUPID thing for a grown man to do! You're a real legend in your own mind, aren't you?

No, I use sense and reason.I can't disprove divine intervention but that's not my job to prove it.it's yours.and James Randi has a million bucks waiting for you when you do.

[6bg6ga]

BTW, another miracle happens to me every time I go to confession, I am absolved of all my sins, that in itself is a miracle.I also receive a Miracle every Mass when I receive the Eucharist.You want to get real picky about it, the mere fact I was conceived, grew and was born is in itself a miracle is it not, can anyone but God do that?

No, confession is a sacrament not a miracle and so is receiving communion. No, birth i not a miracle either.

[jcwit]

No, confession is a sacrament not a miracle and so is receiving communion. No, birth i not a miracle either.

Who says a sacrament cannot also be a miracle, you? I say they can be both.
So you're telling me that a piece of bread & a sip of wine, being turned into the body/flesh and blood of Christ is not a miracle? I'm sorry for your lack of faith.

Who says a birth can not be a miracle, you? I say they can be both.
Can anyone here on earth make me? Again I'm sorry for your lack of faith.

Again, quit spreading discontent!

[Boaz]

I started a similar thread in the pit . If ya'll want to argue why not go there ???

You can 'settle it ' (?) down there .
LINK TO THREAD :

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...04#post3655304

[Boaz]

I have seen many what I would call a miraculous healing . My mother in law had been in the hospital 4 days getting worse quickly . She was in a coma , oxygen , IV's the whole heroic effort thing . Her lead surgeon gathered the family in the lobby and told all she would not make it through the night .

6 or 7 days later she and her best friend were sitting in their favorite Mexican restaurant for their usual margarita special night . Yea , there are miracles .

[Pine Baron]

Thanks, Boaz, for bringing this back on topic.

[Blackwater]

No, I use sense and reason.I can't disprove divine intervention but that's not my job to prove it.it's yours.and James Randi has a million bucks waiting for you when you do.

You say you use "sense and reason." That's a laugh. If you did, you'd realize that observation and analysis matters. You just deny because you WANT to.

And the "Amazing Randy" thing has already been explained, but that too you deny. Or maybe you just conveniently "forgot?"

[Blackwater]

No, confession is a sacrament not a miracle and so is receiving communion. No, birth i not a miracle either.

6bg, if you can't or won't or don't accept that all life is a miracle, then you obviously haven't looked into the circumstances of creation. Science alone can give you many, many reasons why ANY life is a legitimate miracle - an improbability so many billions and billions of times against the odds, that it cannot be considered anything else BUT a miracle. Your mindset, before you even came here, was to deny and "make" us prove something you'd just deny anyway, 'till the cows come home, wasn't it?

You've contributed NOTHING here but dissent and confusion and you intended for it to be so. Once again, your comments belong in the pit, and NOT here. But you knew that before you came here, didnt' you?

[Blackwater]

6bg and cba, did either of you read the post I made about my wife's Grandad's experience in the hospital, with the old preacher who said he could stop bleeding? If you didn't, you might wanna' go back and deal with THAT one. See, if you can, if you can rationalize THAT one away, OK? This is MY challenge to YOU!

[Pine Baron]

I started a similar thread in the pit . If ya'll want to argue why not go there ???

You can 'settle it ' (?) down there .
LINK TO THREAD :

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...04#post3655304

Please, really, this^^^

[oldcanadice]

It is mostly ignored to the point of being hidden and forbidden knowledge, that, at the end of his life, St Thomas Aquinas repudiated the idea that logic was the foundation of faith. Similarly; there is a paper by a famous mathematician titled "The Unreasonable Effectiveness of Mathematics in the Natural Sciences" that points out that there is no reasonable explanation why mathematics -- the very embodiment of logic at its most strictly applied level -- should work out like it does. The point: If you chase the study of logic to the extreme, as for example in an extreme case of logic in theology (St. T. A.) or in a course of study of the foundations of logic at a graduate-school level of mathematics (my case), you become acutely aware that logic is not the rock-solid basis for all thought that you (and apparently some of the people here) originally were led to believe.

Get the last word: it always comes down to belief. When it's all said and done, it's experience that counts, and after that it is the question of what is to be accepted as evidence to support an experience. Most people that use them every day (including "experts") claim that statistics is the tool that does it to PREDICT outcomes of events -- which is fundamentally speaking just the OPPOSITE of what the actual mathematics of probability says. Others want "documentation" -- but again; what is that?

Biblically and in the Koran: "evidence" is sufficient when three witnesses will give the same story about the occurrence of an event. Current prosecutors consider a SINGLE witness sufficient to go to trial. Logic doesn't even enter into the picture. It has NOTHING to do with being "logical". So here is an event witnessed by my wife and about 20 people, including my eldest son.

My wife was (reluctantly) at a 'pentecostal' gathering back in the 60's due to an invitation she could not, on echumenical grounds, socially refuse. The event was held at a home and was a bit boisterous by our standards, but it proceeded along without major embarrassment. Until -- the preacher in charge looked up and said something to the effect: "There is someone here who has a back problem -- who is it?" Very spooky. No one volunteered. The preacher kept looking around, and then looked directly at my wife. She'd been had and fessed up and was told to come forward and sit in front of the preacher (and of course, in front of every one else). There is no way in the world she would have volunteered to do that, but social pressure prevailed and she did.

Long story short: From a medically corrected birth defect she had -- emphasis 'had' -- one leg somewhat shorter than the other. It was in fact a medical marvel that things were repaired to the point that she could straightly walk like everyone else. No one ever knew unless we told them, but she did suffer from back pain from it -- especially when she was pregnant.

So: said preacher sat her down, immediately placed her legs in position to show the difference in length (he could have had no clue -- there had been NO discussion between them), he held the short leg and prayed in the name of Jesus Christ, and my wife and son watched in half alarm as the short leg grew to match the longer one. yeah.

Illogical? Mass hysteria? Hypnosis? You think? Well maybe -- except she hasn't been bothered by her back since 1968. This is with a now near 80 year old woman that messes with horses on a regular basis.

So you want evidence guys: how's that?

[Blackwater]

What a great and VERY complete and apt post. Both the first and 2nd parts! Thank you. I knew there were more stories out there, and I have a distinct sense there are a lot more that people are holding back, lest someone cast an aspersion toward them. But if we have no more strength in our faith than that, what kind of Christian are we, really?

So c'mon, guys, give us your own experiences. Miracles aren't common, but they're not really all that rare, either. They're exceptions, but far from unknown to all of us. That along makes them a very large number, even though they're still exceptions to the everyday rule. Nobody here will scoff, I can assure you, except maybe the usual suspects, who aren't here for any sort of edification anyway, but simply to argue and scoff. With what Christ bore for us - the Cross and death - can we let a little cynical scoffing deter us from what we're supposed to be about? I think not.

[Pine Baron]

Suffice it to say. I'm alive and I shouldn't be. No "proof" offered no "evidence" given. Thank you Jesus for my Salvation. All glory to God. Amen.

[Boaz]

Suffice it to say. I'm alive and I shouldn't be. No "proof" offered no "evidence" given. Thank you Jesus for my Salvation. All glory to God. Amen.

I agree . The telling of miracles is inspiring to me but I need no proof . We are all miracles .

[cbashooter]

You say you use "sense and reason." That's a laugh. If you did, you'd realize that observation and analysis matters. You just deny because you WANT to.

And the "Amazing Randy" thing has already been explained, but that too you deny. Or maybe you just conveniently "forgot?"

I didn't realize this original topic was under "our Chapel"
I apologize I should have never entered the thread I just thought it was under "our town". I have opened up a can of worms.


There's no such thing as a miracle, never has been never will be proved and all of you guys know it. if The wishful thinking makes your day go better enjoy........

If you use the reasoning for your miracles for your casting hobby you could reason that demons made the voids in the bullets and there's no way I could prove to you that the demons didn't because I can't see them and you know for sure they did them. And when you prayed they went away.

Just saying....

Don't get me wrong most of my best my friends are conservative religious people. The values we both share are very similar the only argument is why we have them.
I should have stuck with the deal I have with my Christian friends I stay out of their prayer conversations and they stay out of the science .

[jcwit]

I didn't realize this original topic was under "our Chapel"
I apologize I should have never entered the thread I just thought it was under "our town". I have opened up a can of worms.


There's no such thing as a miracle, never has been never will be proved and all of you guys know it. if The wishful thinking makes your day go better enjoy........

If you use the reasoning for your miracles for your casting hobby you could reason that demons made the voids in the bullets and there's no way I could prove to you that the demons didn't because I can't see them and you know for sure they did them. And when you prayed they went away.

Just saying....

Don't get me wrong most of my best my friends are conservative religious people. The values we both share are very similar the only argument is why we have them.
I should have stuck with the deal I have with my Christian friends I stay out of their prayer conversations and they stay out of the science .

Believe as you wish, but I feel sorry for your soul.

May God have mercy on you and your soul!

[jcwit]

This is one reason I pray for

God, lead all souls to Heaven, especially those most in need of your mercy!