Physical healing in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ.

[6bg6ga]

Like I said its a simple. Some of you claim to have had cancer and other major illnesses. If this is true it is easily documented with nothing more than a piece of paper from your local clinic stating their diagnosis. Yet, you cannot, will not provide this. Yet, you now claim to have been healed by a miracle from God. If you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear. I will gladly accept the truth. Its pretty simple....your diagnosis sheet has numbers and subsections on it that they check and they generally write something next to it. Simply cover up your name so no one can see it and post a picture of it.

[Boaz]

Back to the topic .
GOD does indeed create and perform miracles . GOD does give us the power of healing one another through him but it is rare . To attain the level of relationship with him and to be the connivance of his power has never been for everyone because of our own failings or simply because it is not his plan . The power or ability of prophesy is also given to some but not all . There is a plan , there is a reason . Our ability's given are part of it , he chooses those ability's accordingly............there is a reason . Through GOD all things are possible .

[Boaz]

3 Now Peter and John went up together into the temple at the hour of prayer, being the ninth hour.
² And a certain man lame from his mother's womb was carried, whom they laid daily at the gate of the temple which is called Beautiful, to ask alms of them that entered into the temple;
³ Who seeing Peter and John about to go into the temple asked an alms.
⁴ And Peter, fastening his eyes upon him with John, said, Look on us.
⁵ And he gave heed unto them, expecting to receive something of them.
⁶ Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk.
⁷ And he took him by the right hand, and lifted him up: and immediately his feet and ankle bones received strength.
⁸ And he leaping up stood, and walked, and entered with them into the temple, walking, and leaping, and praising God.
⁹ And all the people saw him walking and praising God:
¹⁰ And they knew that it was he which sat for alms at the Beautiful gate of the temple: and they were filled with wonder and amazement at that which had happened unto him.
¹¹ And as the lame man which was healed held Peter and John, all the people ran together unto them in the porch that is called Solomon's, greatly wondering.
¹² And when Peter saw it, he answered unto the people, Ye men of Israel, why marvel ye at this? or why look ye so earnestly on us, as though by our own power or holiness we had made this man to walk?

[6bg6ga]

I don't doubt that GOD does indeed create and perform miracles. I'm only asking for poof that there have been illnesses in the storys above. Sometimes the mind has a habit of putting more into the situation then there actually is. You have to admit there is a possibility in some of these storys that someone thought they had an illness when in fact it was a product of their mind. Still an easy solution here. Prove there was actually an illness and I will believe there was a miracle.

[Boaz]

Although we all may not be able to heal directly all of us still are endowed with the power of prayer. A bridge to talk to him . Ask his help, praise him , get answers, seek all he provides . Although there are many references to prayer in your bible I like this one because it is simple and self explainatory.

James 5;16

Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

We do have the power to heal through prayer and praying together the power compounds itself .

[jcwit]

Well, if this did indeed happen your probably in the medical journals. Any idea of what month and year I can start looking? JAMA would have some good records and articles on such an impressive event as yours.

Have fun, Sept 1955 or 1956.

Good luck.

Was at the Childrens Hospital in South Bend, In. looking out my window in my room The Golden Dome was visiable.

Have fun in your quest, may very well take up enough of your time to not post as you have been doing.

I lived it, you didn't!

[WRideout]

When I volunteered at the VA hospital a few years ago, I sat in on the classes that the chaplain gave at the Domiciliary, where recovering addicts were treated. I remember the eyes of the men in the room, some of them quite young. They had what we used to call the "thousand yard stare." We were having a group discussion when I asked, without really knowing what I was asking, "Is anyone grateful for their addiction?" A few hands went up, and the answers were all about finding that moment when they were completely dependent on God. Many years later, I find that I have also had times when there was nothing left but to depend on God, who was in fact in control of my life.

I am not afraid of people who express doubt. It can be difficult to acknowledge that there is something bigger than one's self. Almost anything can be proven or disproven by rational thought and logic, but faith is not like that. Science will only get you so far, then one has to admit that there are simply things in this universe that have no rational explanation.

Healing is not always about the physical body. Sometimes the spirit is healed when the body is not. Those who cry out in anger against a God they don't trust, may be saying that there is a God, whom they should trust.

Wayne

[Boaz]

I agree . Spiritual healing would be more critical and beneficial than physical healing in the short and long run .

[cbashooter]

David Hume wrote in 1748: "A wise man ... proportions his belief to the evidence", and "No testimony is sufficient to establish a miracle, unless the testimony be of such a kind, that its falsehood would be more miraculous than the fact which it endeavors to establish"

Marcello Truzzi said it simplest'"An extraordinary claim requires extraordinary proof"

[Blackwater]

Mr. Blackwater, I happen to have the same right that you do to post here. I asked a simple question and that is show me the proof. So far no proof has been given to prove anyone was actually sick and or cured of this sickness. You all profess to be God fearing people and you done nothing but attack me for asking for some simple proof. Some have gone as far as to suggest that I am with the devil. Unless I am badly mistaken this particular thread this section is no different than any other section in this forum. ANY person has the right to come in and to post. If you feel I am in error than do your best to get be banned from this forum. Until this happens I will continue to ask the same question and that is show me the proof.

And just what kind of "proof" would be sufficient for you? You do NOT have any right to disrupt righteous prayer and congregation. You just DO it anyway. You can assert any kind of lies that suit your purposes, but you can't make them valid or true or honorable. You're a misfit here, and only here for the purpose of creating trouble and dissent. You're not even looking for real "answers," except as they might be used to continue your attempted assault on Godly proceedings. You think you disrupt us, but you can't. God and his service will NEVER be overcome, least of all by the likes of one so obviously and tranparently of ill will as you.

But as I said, that doesn't stop you, because you simply don't CARE about what's right or true or good. You just have nothing but trouble making on your mind, and hatred of righteousness in your heart. And you think we Christians are afraid of and shrink from THAT???? When it's BEEN being what's been thrust at us for millenea now???? HAR! The tip of your spear is awfully blunt, sir! If you're planning to wage war on Christianity and belief, you're really going about it in an awfully pitiful and stupid way!

So take your "rights" and don't let the door hit you in the backside. We're going to do what we do, whether you like it or not, and no matter what you attempt to do to stop us.

We're onto your vicious and silly ways, and we're no longer going to just disperse any time you wannabe bullies show up.

And every jot and tittle of what you say and do and intend here is being recorded somewhere, and one day, you'll have to answer for every tiny bit of it. Load your wagon as heavy as you like. Won't affect any of us here in the least. But in your grandiose image of your own self, and your actions, I don't expect that reality to stop you. You've shown rather clearly that reality is NOT your strong suit! So be it.

You and BinS came from the "pit" just to be disruptive, didn't you? You've never shown up before here, have you? And you think we're too dumb to see your purpose and intent???? HAR! Rule No. 1 of engaging any "enemy" - Do NOT underestimate them! You have done exactly that, sir. Badly.

[Blackwater]

Just for the record my temp ran 108 degrees for most of the night my mother sat outside my room praying. Tell us how many 13 year olds live thru that with no brain damage?

How many with twisted legs and back's go on to walk and serve their Country in active duty with no hardship.

What's the average of folks with cancer that take chemo with no ill effects and recover from cancer after being told they have a 30% chance of living more than a month or two. Then try to convince me there is no power in Prayer.

Amen, JC. For those who understand, no explanation is necessary. For those who don't, no explanation is sufficient. But then, they're not here to argue or debate, but to disrupt. They have no idea how much true strength there really is within Christianity. After all, weak things COULD not last for 2,000 years, could they? I have no doubt whatsoever that prayer was a real and vital element of your being here today. Thank you for pulling through and telling your story so more can, if they but will, might see the Truth of God and His healing hands, and the real value and power of simple prayer. It matters. Thank you!

[Blackwater]

Well, if this did indeed happen your probably in the medical journals. Any idea of what month and year I can start looking? JAMA would have some good records and articles on such an impressive event as yours.

JAMA doesn't record things like this, 6ga. But you already knew that, didn't you? You're just trying to think of SOME sort of "comeback," aren't you? You're doing exactly what I and others have said, and you're ONLY here to argue and disrupt righteous goings on that occur here. As such, you're serving only Evil, and it's all being recorded each time you try to slip your haughty disbelief in here. Like I said, you're more out of place than a ***** in church. At least whores sometimes have a heart with which to feel the simple Truth with, if they just let it be so. You don't even have THAT any more - nothing but your haughty, pretentious, empty disbelief. You're more transparent than cellophane! So be it. Your choice, your consequences.

[Blackwater]

The Great Randy (de bunker of Uri Gellar)offers a million-dollar prize for proof of Supernatural in a controlled setting (prayer being one of them) I am sure if it worked somebody would be a million dollars richer right now.

God grants prayers that are rendered up in sincerity and need. He does NOT appreciate "being tested." If you had any knowledge of what you're spouting off about, you'd know that. But you don't, and yet you continue! What an absolutely STUPID thing for a grown man to do! You're a real legend in your own mind, aren't you?

[Blackwater]

Yes, I do, Lead. Always have, actually. It was part of my personality for decades, and now, I'm truly sorry for it. It's not the haughty, self-congratulatory idjit disbelievers I'm concerned with, though. It's those on the periphery who read but don't post, who MIGHT be persuaded by their lies and pretensions that are the real issue here. I've noted for decades how that "shake the dust" verse has been used, and all too often, I fear, it's been used simply to avoid unpleasantness, than it is to really justify our behavior in reality. It's understandable, of course. Nobody likes arguing with idjits who have no real intent to promote wisdom and understanding, but exactly the opposite.

They truly serve a quite different Master than our Lord, and think, for NOW at least, that they're "having a great time." But they're not. Nothing EVER satisfies them. They have needs that NOTHING can satisfy, because they don't really INTEND to satisfy anything within them. They're just full of spite and hate for righteousness, in whatever forms they encounter it, because it's a constant and ever present reminder of just how empty and unhappy they really are. This compels them to act aggressively toward people of faith or any expressions thereof they encounter. That's why they've come here. It's definitely NOT to learn or grow or understand or contribute to the righteous activities here, but to disrupt, and TRY to deny us what we know is real and everlasting. It's a fool's errand on their part, but you can't keep a fool from his chosen devices and idiocy. All we can do is simply deal with it, and "shaking the dust" just hasn't served us very well.

In support of that, I'd offer the simple fact that this has clearly become the operative mode of most Christians today. It was NOT always like that. Once, people could and would argue these things, and still remain friends. The conditions at the time were conducive, and kind'a supportive of that. Today, we've got it so easy that people can be as willful and neglectful as we want, and we'll STILL survive! This is a significant change from the way things have been in this country since its inception. Where we CAN survive and be as willful as we wish, we obviously have chosen to become as willful and pretentious as we can possibly be, at least very typically. No need to believe in God and the Afterlife and Christ if we can't see our own demise one day. "Eat, drink and be merry, for tomorrow we shall die" doesn't even ring with any truth to many "moderns," today.

As a result, even we Christians have taken to not even defending oursleves, on the basis of that verse alone. But there are many other verses, including that age-old question, "Am I my brother's keeper?" that ALSO have to be taken into consideration. We've allowed ourselves to become willful, too, just in a different way than the disbelievers, and because of that, evil has grown. When good men sit and do nothing, evil tends to reign among us. And I think we've sat and done nothing, using that verse as our excuse, for FAR too long. Even many within our own families have fallen to disbelief because we've continued to sit silently and "respectfully" while even our own family members have been lost. How can THAT be "God's will for us?" I simply don't think it can. I'm grateful for a great son and two fine grandsons who believe, but I don't kid myself that they can't be lost at some point.

Thus, I've simply resolved to take the less pleasant route, and engage those who try to spread their poison. It's really just that simple. If I'm wrong, Christ knows I have given it a lot of thought. I certainly didn't WANT to devote my time and whatever knowledge and talents I may have accumulated through the years to doing this. I just can't NOT do it when I believe as I do. Many will retain their belief in that verse, of course, and may will devoutly believe they're doing God's will. It's one of those things that we Christians can legitimately debate. I frankly, wish someone could convince me otherwise. It would allow me to spend some time doing other, more satisfying things for me, personally. Maybe I'm kind'a like ol' Don Quixote, tilting at wind mills, but I honestly don't believe that's so.

I guess I DO get a little thrill out of engaging evil with righteousness, or what elements of it I can muster up in my dusty old way. But I know that's wrong of me, and it's waning. Nothing brings out the best in a man than a good fight of some kind, whether it be in armed warfare or a simple debate. It also brings out the worst in us sometimes, too, and it's hard for us to see that at times. Mostly, though, I'm FAR more calm and stating things very matter-of-factly than the idjit disbelievers seem to think I am when they read my responses to them. They see what they WANT to see. And what they "see" seems to, in almost every case, be simple illusions within their own minds. But reality and truth have never been their strong suit, and when that's true, there's never going to be a very good end to it all. They're merely "loading thier wagon" as many say here - piling up the offenses that they're sooner or later going to have to pay for, and pay for dearly.

I think if we Christians had been seriously engaging and countering the "secular progressives" for the past 40 years, and hadn't ever read that "shake the dust" verse, we'd be in a very different place than we are now. I think fewer people would have fallen into the throes and belief in evil and fantasy, and that makes US responsible, at least as to acts of omission on our part, for their loss. I am truly sorry for every soul that is lost, and most especially those that were lost because of what we Christians failed to do, because we absorbed too much escapism by being more PC than Biblical based in our actions.

We're told that if we but truly seek, we WILL find, and I can't think of a single instance where that hasn't proven true. But what it doesn't say is that if we go reading the Bible, looking for excuses to do OUR will rather than the Lord's, we'll find what we seek there, as well. That's the "Cathch-22" in reading the Bible. One with their own wills in mind CAN, very often, perceive (by perversion) many verses in accord with their will, instead of according to the Lord's. This is the built in "trap" in it all, that has caused me to seek advice and counself of other, obviously more knowledgeable and understanding of it all than I was. My own will prevented me from truly understanding the Bible raw, in its pure form. Only reading the thoughts and ideas and insights of others has enabled me to see just how truly willful and self-deluded I've been in the past, even as a believer for well over 50 years now! When things truly become clear, and we KNOW we've seen "the light," it's a wonderful and very humbling thing to realize we'd been reading the same things over and over for 50+ years, and STILL not been able to crack the surface on them! Truly, our Bible is a wondrous book, but it's a tough nut to crack if we're really seeking to understand the divine. I've got at least a little of it, FINALLY! And for the life of me, I can't stand even the thought of letting it waste away unused. I feel like I've already done that for WAY too long! And if I did, I think it'd be a shameful waste of all the things I've learned from the many who've led me to such light as I've been able to discern thus far.

The funny thing about Light is, the more of it you see, the more of it you CAN see, and not all of it is really pleasant - like realizing how responsible for so many acts of omission in the past decades. But reality is what it is, and it's not exactly a new concept to me that I've erred in the past. So, I just accept what I find, and go forth, looking for more and better. I know it's out there. I'm far too dull for there not to be!

[Blackwater]

Like I said its a simple. Some of you claim to have had cancer and other major illnesses. If this is true it is easily documented with nothing more than a piece of paper from your local clinic stating their diagnosis. Yet, you cannot, will not provide this. Yet, you now claim to have been healed by a miracle from God. If you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear. I will gladly accept the truth. Its pretty simple....your diagnosis sheet has numbers and subsections on it that they check and they generally write something next to it. Simply cover up your name so no one can see it and post a picture of it.

Go get your documentation for the Master YOU serve. You don't apparently like ours.

[Blackwater]

I don't doubt that GOD does indeed create and perform miracles. I'm only asking for poof that there have been illnesses in the storys above. Sometimes the mind has a habit of putting more into the situation then there actually is. You have to admit there is a possibility in some of these storys that someone thought they had an illness when in fact it was a product of their mind. Still an easy solution here. Prove there was actually an illness and I will believe there was a miracle.

OK. First you say you don't doubt miracles, and THEN you want "proof?" How is that to be believed? It's self-contradictory. You and BinS and more came here just to "play," and try to spread your disbelief, didn't you? And then, you expect us not to notice? HAR! Maybe we're not as dumb as you had to convince yourself we are if you thought we were THAT easy!

[Blackwater]

David Hume wrote in 1748: "A wise man ... proportions his belief to the evidence", and "No testimony is sufficient to establish a miracle, unless the testimony be of such a kind, that its falsehood would be more miraculous than the fact which it endeavors to establish"

Marcello Truzzi said it simplest'"An extraordinary claim requires extraordinary proof"

Exactly, Shooter. But the problem is, what do these deniers consider "evidence?" Every time they are given real evidence, they simply deny THAT, and say they want "REAL" evidence. To them, everything is just "a claim," unless THEY can see and duplicate it at will. Of course, faith has never been that way. It's given ONLY to believers, and then not always. St. Paul had what he called a "thorn in his side," that God refused to remove from him, and heal. So here was Paul, a literal Saint, being refused a healing! Why was this? Paul had a bit of pridefulness within him. Mabye it was that "thorn of the flesh" (epilepsy maybe?) that kept him humble, and on the path that God had chosen for him? That's just one explanation and there are others. But we do not understand as God and Christ do, simply because we are not the same SUBSTANCE as they are. Thus, the necessity of faith for our more complete understanding of just what and who gets healed and who doesn't. I suspect that many prayers don't get much higher than the ceiling they're said under, but real, earnest, heartfelt and desperate prayers, really DO get heard, and often heeded by our Master. We've all here seen the evidence of it. Some just deny that evidence, and are SO intent and determined to continue denying, that they have come to not even WANT real evidence, and will deny all of it we might ever present. They simply don't WANT to believe so .... miraculously (yeah, that's a joke and a stab at their feigned "sincerity") they just don't. And they likely never will, because they're simply not open to it.

Being open to believing in miracles doesn't mean the same thing as merely SAYING it. It's very much real, despite what the deniers and mockers will ever say. And WE know it, even if they keep on denying it 'till time passes away. No skin off of our nose. Only thiers. I wish they understood what it is they're really doing. But wishin' ain't gittin', is it?

[6bg6ga]

Relax JAck... Let me try to clarify. I do not consider what you folks believe as a miracle an actual miracle. Like I pointed out the ministers, and such that I have talked to say they do conduct investigations of these instances just like the catholic church does. I believe that in order to be a miracle there has to be a sickness or such that is documented. You kind folks do not have any documentation and or proof to back up your claims. If you did happen to come across with such documentation I would have no problem believing. You profess to be christians and yet you continue to throw mud at me taunting me asking which master I serve. Unlike what would appear to be some of you I act upon logic, proof and common sense. I have the right to doubt what has been stated here because there is no absolute proof that there was what I would call an instance of severe sickness. If there was in fact bonified proof of this illness and this ilness was cured I absolutely would believe it.

[jcwit]

What form of documentation do you wish me to present? Children's hospital in South Bend, IN was torn down years ago, I'm fairly certain most if not all of the Dr.s & Nurses that attended me are long gone. As are my mother & father & both of my brothers. I was 12 at the time and my 13 birthday was in Oct., I'm now 72. After all it was in 1956, bact before they shut down the Studebaker plant.

As I've said before, I'm the one who lived it, don't like my personnel experience?

Stuff your discontent where the sun don't shine!

Quit bringing discontent to the Chapel section, I would think you would have better things to do than cut down what others believe.




Ya know, there's an old saying, If you can't say something good, keep your mouth shut!

[jcwit]

BTW, another miracle happens to me every time I go to confession, I am absolved of all my sins, that in itself is a miracle.

I also receive a Miracle every Mass when I receive the Eucharist.

You want to get real picky about it, the mere fact I was conceived, grew and was born is in itself a miracle is it not, can anyone but God do that?