Weird 429421?

[paraord]

I got this double cav mould along with a 358429 from another member here. I was expecting a Keith, plain jane, just like my 429421 but this one has a weird bevel?
Anyone have any experience with this mould or have a normal 429421 they want to sell?

[Hamish]

That weird bevel is the crimp groove that the case mouth folds into when the case is crimped, the shape is meant to closely match the shape of the brass being folded into it. Someone should be along shortly with a little better history lesson on the differences, but that's the short version.

[Wayne Smith]

It does seem a long bevel for a crimp groove, though. Who knows what happened to the cherry.

[MT Gianni]

You have the original square groove design. This outshoots the round groove which drops bullets easier IME.

[paraord]

My single cavity is the round groove, as is my 358429 (I didnt realize there was 2 different types). My single cav without that beveled crimp drops OAL .776 vs this one at .773. Small details I just found it strange, bit not as strance as that crump edge.

Here they are side by side, sized to .430

[GRUMPA]

Why that boolit has such a big crimp groove is odd, to say the least.

[Mk42gunner]

Looks to me like the square lube groove mold has an excessively large crimp groove, while the round lube groove mold has next nothing for a crimp groove. Somewhere in the middle is about right, in my opinion.

Robert

[catskinner]

Elmer Keith's original design had the beveled crimp groove and flat bottomed lube groove. He also wanted a full diameter front band to "true up the slug in the cylinder throat".

[GWM]

There are so many variations I doubt anyone knows. That long crimp groove looks like it would fit the Redding/Saeco Profile crimp.

[Guesser]

That long bevel gives a better crimp area to help prevent bullet setback in heavy magnum loads. I don't remember where I read that.....may have been in G&A magazine way back when Elmer was still alive and writing for the magazine, would be nearly 40 years ago. Too bad I don't still have those old magazines.

[Char-Gar]

Lyman didn't grind their own cherries, but out-sourced them and used a number of different sources. The Lyman folks didn't seem to hold their providers to specs, so you will see quite a variety in the Lyman molds of the same number.

The one pictured varies from the original Keith design in that the Original Keith had three driving bands of equal width and a flat bottom lube groove. It look like the cherry maker got carried away and extended the crimp groove well into the middle driving band. Lyman should have sent it back, but it doesn't look like they did. Mostly likely it will shoot just fine.

When Lyman went from the flat bottom groove to the round bottom groove, Elmer Keith damned them to hell and told folks to buy the Hensley and Gibbs version as it was true to his original design. He got a bit snippy about Lyman playing fast and loose with his designs.

[runfiverun]

well that crimp groove is a new one on me.
I'd say the mold has been modified by an end user.
hard to say.
Lyman has made different molds on every number they have.
I have 3 different 358477's molds here.
the nose shape, lube groove, and drive band length differs from era to era [by era I mean month]

[Hardcast416taylor]

I seem to recall about all the dust kicked up by Elmer for the way his designs were tweaked a little away from his design. I also heard that some of the names Elmer referred to these makers would have made a longshoreman blush.Robert

[paraord]

Well I will load em up and see how they shoot anyways. I just thought it odd how big that taper was and figured you guys might know.

[BrassMagnet]

PM sent.

[Hamish]

PM sent.

Anybody wanna bet me a doughnut?

[merlin101]

Anybody wanna bet me a doughnut?

No, besides it would be stale by the time you got it!

[fred2892]

Nope^^^

Sent from my GT-P5110 using Tapatalk

[Irascible]

Well, you certainly won't have to worry about case length! Any length will still end up in that groove somewhere. HA