Common powder for 303 and 8mm Mauser 160 - 205 gr. cast & PC

[RogerDat]

Over the past shortage I ended up with a bit-o-this and a bit-o-that. Am now starting to load for a Lee Enfield and 8mm Mauser. Have some powder choices I am considering, hoping to reduce the number of powders I keep on hand while still having suitable choices. I'm just trying to find decent shooting loads and hoping suggestions from members on where to start might save me running down some rabbit trails.

Bullets for 303 are:
Lee 312-160-2R with gas check and powder coated. Plinkers
NOE 205 gr. sized 314 RNL with gas check and plain base, powder coated. Plinkers on up to 300 yard ranges (~2000 fps).

Bullet for 8mm Mauser is:
Lee 324-175-1R sized .323 with gas check and then powder coated. Plinkers on up to 300 yard ranges.

I may at some point want to tumble lube or dip in alox or 45/45/10 type lube. PC is great but tumble or dip is less work for plinking ammo.

Powders I'm considering are:
4064 - I already use Varget for other calibers and if the 1# of 4064 I have works then Varget should also. Also 4064 itself is readily available with load data for all the cast weights I am using. Varget is a little harder to come by but worth searching for and stocking up on especially if I can use it in multiple calibers. Load data available for both 303 and 8mm.

4198 - I have not used this before, did pick up a pound in both I & H variety. Load data in Lyman manual for the 303 and 8mm caliber/weights.

I also have BL-C(2), 8208 XBR, Unique, 2400, Load data for these exist for one or the other in manuals or from repeated mention. 16 - 18.6 of 2400 for 303 and 8mm is fairly commonly repeated in C.E Harris article or posts related to it. BL-C(2) and 8208 XBR are commonly available. As is 4064. The Varget, 2400, Unique, and anything ending in "Dot" are harder to come by.

The other rifle calibers/bullets that I'm trying to stock up powder for are that same 160 grain 7.62 x 39 and 70 grain .223 and I may eventually get a mold for a lower weight in the 7.62
I do have about 10 303 RNL 200 gr. on 18 grains of 2400 lubed with alox I plan on trying.

I would love to be able to just buy a 4 or 8 pound jug of one or maybe two powders and be able to know I have the rifles covered for a good while. Then I can focus on working toward best accuracy loading.

Thanks for any help you can provide.

[Outpost75]

Rl7!!!!

[RogerDat]

Is that RL 7 or R 17 ? I don't find loads at the Alliant site for 303 or 8mm in those two. RL 15 has both listed, not at the exact weight but in the ball park. Load data in manuals is thin for 303 above 200 grain bullet.

Not to say one of those two wouldn't be a good choice, they did seem to have some similar type rounds listed.

[Outpost75]

RL 7 for cast, burning rate between 4198 and 3031 with fine particle size good for machine loading. Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook 4th Edition (2010) has RL7 data for 8mm and the .30-40 Krag and 7.65 Argentine cast data in the same book are safe to use as a guide in the .303,


RL15 for full power jacketed loads approximating military. Extruded tubular similar to 4064 or Varget, used by the military for loading 7.62mm M118LR.

[Kraschenbirn]

From what you've got on hand, I'd start both calibers at around 24-25 gr. of 4198 and work up. That said, my 'go-to' is H4895; 31.5 gr. in the .303 with the 185 gr. Lee boolit and 29.5 in the 8x57 with the 209 gr. Lee 'Carabiner' sized down to .325.

Bill

[Bad Ass Wallace]

I'm using equivilent to 3031 - 26.5gns with a 220gn boolit sized to .314" .

[jimb16]

Using the same 8mm bullet with pc coating and 4198 powder, I got my best accuracy at 24.4 grain loading. Might not work for you, but its worth a try.

[RogerDat]

Using the same 8mm bullet with pc coating and 4198 powder, I got my best accuracy at 24.4 grain loading. Might not work for you, but its worth a try.

Thanks for that load data. I'm prepping brass now and will ladder some loads, will be making sure I have yours in the mix. I am really hoping I can find a good load for both calibers in these three bullets using the same powder and 4198 looks like it has promise.

I also find I have a pound of H4895 and one of IMR4895 so I may be able to try something based on what Bill uses for his "go-to" loads. Depending on how this works out I can see about getting some RL-7 and giving it a try. Lots of good information.

I will say given a choice between having less accurate rounds or having to stock two powders I'll be stocking up on two powders.

[RogerDat]

Lee 312-160-2R with gas check and powder coated.
I am having trouble finding load data using 4198 for this bullet. Other than the copies of the article by C.E. Harris that state it is good with either 18 gr. or 18.5 gr. of 4198 OR for more power 22 - 25 grain loads.

Anyone have a 4198 load the have personally used for 303 with this lee bullet?

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/arch...p/t-17574.html has these two statements attributed to him.
The first is an extension of comments on 16 gr of 2400 as the "universal" load for these mil-surp approx. 30 caliber rifles. Red Dot gets a mention in another. However red dot must be made from ground unicorn horn so it is pretty hard to find any around.

Similar ballistics can be obtained with other powders in any case from 7.62x39 to 30-06 size. If you don't have Hercules #2400, you can freely substitute 17 grains of IMR or H4227, 18 grains of 4198, 21 grains of Reloder 7, 24 grains of IMR 3031, or 25.5 grains of 4895 for comparable results.

Mattern's "deer and 600 yard target load" can be assembled in cases of 30-40 Krag capacity or larger up to 30-06 using 18-21 grains of #2400 or 4227, 22-25 grains of 4198, 25-28 grains of RL-7 or 27-30 grains of 4895, which give from 1700-1800 f.p.s., depending on the case size. These charges must not be used in cases smaller than the 303 British without cross checking against published data! The minimum charge should always be used initially, and the charge adjusted within the specified range only as necessary to get best grouping.

Hoping someone has actually tried these loads.

[aspangler]

Found Red Dot, Green Dot, 4227, 2400, Unique, and a bunch of others yesterday at the Bass Pro in Bristol, TN. I bought a pound of CFE223 for my 8mm. It will shoot clover leaf groups with that stuff. What ever works I guess. Powder is getting much easier to find here. Prices here are about what you pay online but without the hazmat fees.

[RogerDat]

Found Red Dot, Green Dot, 4227, 2400, Unique, and a bunch of others yesterday at the Bass Pro in Bristol, TN. I bought a pound of CFE223 for my 8mm. It will shoot clover leaf groups with that stuff. What ever works I guess. Powder is getting much easier to find here. Prices here are about what you pay online but without the hazmat fees.

Bass Pro has powders but the prices are pretty stiff, several dollars more than I see other places online and at gun shows. But probably due to those higher prices they still have some in stock, I bought some H110 and Green Dot from them, along with some 2400. These powders have just not been around anywhere else. Price for the 2400 was a around $7 more than the last pound I found at a gun show within the last year. Go to gunbot.net and check prices, Cabela's and Bass Pro are always around $5 more than anywhere else but tend to have a bit more selection.

Right now I have probably 4 or 5 different powders I could load these bullets with at the bench, including most of the ones you mention, a couple or three pounds of each. My goal is to get that down closer to 2 powders I could use in 8 pound quantity for rifle, and a couple or three powders for pistol. I already have a use for a decent amount of Varget and 4198 this is why I'm trying to find loads for these two specific powders 4064/Varget and 4198 in the Mauser and Enfield.

[runfiverun]

just about all of them will work,,, seriously.

I have been using 4198 in my 32 Winchester.
4895 in well everything from 223 to 30-06 and 4895 in everything from 223 to 30-06.
I prefer the IMR brand.
I shoot enough 2400 to get into panic mode if I go under 20 lbs. mostly in the rifles.
2230 gets used in enough calibers with both cast and jacketed I get the same way at the same point.
heck pick 2 or 3 out of the cabinet and work with them.
I will say that H-322 works ten times better reduced if you use a Dacron filler, 4895 is about 50% better with the filler than with a powder increase.
3031 seems to do pretty well without a filler but leaves a dry carbon behind.
the cfe-223 powder looks like it would work pretty well but I'm down to about 12 pounds of it and my oldest girl would kill me if I used it in anything other than her 250 savage.
if you go slower than 4064 a filler is a big help again or you get too much unburned powder from the low pressure.

from your case sizes there 2400 will work in all of them.
set your measure for 17 grs for everything bigger than the X39.
and to 10 for the 223 and give that a go.
16 does well in the X54 under the 314299 mold,[sized to 313] better than you'd think those rifles with no rifling and a throat that goes to the muzzle will shoot.
the X39 would probably like the same combination depending on the barrel.

[RogerDat]

Have seen so little 2400 that I really wanted to hold what I have for 357 and 44 magnum unless I can score some more. I'm starting to load I will be doing a few of the 160 grain 303 at 18 gr. 4198 Then ladder up with 4198 for the 175 and 205 grain bullets from the starting loads listed in Lyman manual. Making sure I hit the 24.4 grain suggested by jimb16 in the 8mm.

In the 4064 I was going to use the ADI load data for 174 grain in 303 to load the 160 grain. Starting at 70% of max load which would be 29.4 grains and ladder up from there, ADI shows 38 - 42 grains for that weight. 303 with 205 grain I'll use the ADI load for 215 grain. 70% of max is 27.6 grains. Min-Max is 37 - 39.4 and I'll ladder up as far as that range.

8mm will be using ADI data for 175 grain. Min-Max of 4064 is 43-50.5 I'll start with 70% of max so 35.35 grains.

If I find some load that I really like in 4064 I'll see if that same load is good in Varget and stock up on Varget. I would love to have 20# of 2400 or really any of the broadly useful powders. Maybe if this works out I'll be able to work in that direction but that will more likely involve a 4 or 8 pound purchase. Over time buying those faster than they get used can lead to a good size supply on hand.

I really do want to try out BL-C(2) and 8208 XBR both look like they are well thought of, but one thing at a time.

[leebuilder]

Lots of good info shared.
my findings for 303
i found 4198 about the best for stout loads
Followed by 4895, 3031 and 4227.
I am about to try H335 soon in 303 had great success in 7.62×51 and 7.62×54
Working up a 100m load using longshot, closest to 2400 i can find

For reduced loads titgroup is spot on and reddot to unquie are preformers as well.
be safe

[blixen]

I would have said 4759--but it's apparently extinct. It was my go to for Krag, 8mmx57, 06, Argentine, 303. Good ol' A2400 is pretty handy at about 16-20 grains. I'm in the same situation as the OP, trying to find something that works with several calibers and replace 4759. Experimenting with 4227--does anyone have any experience with it?

[runfiverun]

4227 works very well in the 30-06 with a 150-200gr boolit at about 22.5grs,
so does aa-1680.
that same 22.5 is just a tick to much in the 22-250 or 220 swift, they shoot okay but the groups open up over 4895 enough it ain't worth the hassle in them.

I tend to find a load then spread it around amongst the other calibers I shoot.
usually one of them will be a standout with it and the others good enough to get some trigger time in.
tweaking it up or down a grain or two usually pulls the others into a workable arrangement.
the 7mm's usually want you to cut the load by about another 15-20% to do well.

AA's 4100 is a whole ton closer to 2400 than anything else besides ramshots enforcer.[they are the same powder in different packages]
they will overlap weights and velocity's with 2400 on the way up and down the scale.
usually 1/2gr less of either one will duplicate 2400's pressure and velocity.
they are a finer grained powder and thus more dense which explains why they use the tiny bit less weight wise.

[leebuilder]

My experience with 4227 is erractic with lower weights, more consistant towards max, 26 grains if i remember correctly. I likes the heavier boolits too. Sourced a few pounds over the winter and hope to work up a good load for 100m shooting. 25grs of 4198 and the lee 185gr br at .002 over bore size is my best consistant hole puncher to date.
I still have not tried fillers yet.
Hope this helps
be well

[Adam Helmer]

Roger,

My best 8x57MM and .303 cast boolit powders are, in descending order: IMR4198, 2400 and Unique.

Adam

[Kosh75287]

I'm an absolute beginner to using cast projectiles in medium capacity rifle cartridges, so I will defer to the experience(s) of darned near everyone else on this forum concerning the matter. I nonetheless have used several buckets of both types of 4895, Varget & AA-2460 for any number of "out of the ordinary" applications in cartridges including .22 Hornet, .30-30, .308 Winchester, .30-06, 7.65x53 & 8x57, where "j-word" bullets were involved. None of them has failed to give me at least ADEQUATE results, and most often gave me very good to excellent results.

I prefer H4895 over IMR-4895, because the former enables the reloader to use the "40% reduction rule" (i.e., multiply max charge for j-word by 0.6) to obtain starting cast bullet load. But I'm not lost on the concept with the IMR version.

I regard H4895 as the "Alliant Unique" of the rifle powders. In almost all rifle rounds from .222 Remington to .375 H&H, there will be a load using H4895 that gives tenable if not superb performance in it. It may not be at its best on the most "over bore" rounds of recent inception, but how often do we launch cast projectiles from those?

[runfiverun]

pretty often.
the 375 H&H, 416 Rigby, 300 win mag, and several others are superb rounds with cast boolits.

it's funny about the H type of 4895.
I too preferred it at first then once I made actual side to side comparisons with the I-type my view completely changed.