The 626 Pigpocalypse

[BigEyeBob]

H&R made two rifled slug guns (that I know of) - the Tracker II in a normal shotgun profile barrel (mine) and the Ultra Slug Hunter in a heavy barrel version. There may have been an earlier Tracker as well? Twist for the 20 ga is 1:28.

The paradox gun was more a rifled choke type thing, a double rifle originated by Holland & Holland in which only the last three inches of the barrel were rifled. It was indeed intended for use in India and Africa on dangerous game. A few other English rifle makers copied the idea. That idea was that one could shoot shot or these sort of conical skirted slugs for big game. I believe H&H will still make a paradox gun in 12ga on the Royal Sidelock Ejector platform, starting at a mere $27,000...

Dont forget the Cape Gun it had a rifle barrel on one side and shotgun barrel on the other.
Saw one for sale here recently 577/450 on the left and 12 bore on the right , unfortunately I didn't have the financial resources to buy it.

[Whiterabbit]

I have a Lee Classic Loader. But the thin wall brass hulls are too thin to taper crimp in it.

you still talking about the magtech shells? they are pretty thick! Is your classic loader the same as the classic cast, with the thread adapter to 1.25" threads? or a different model

Sizing down those magtech shells was probably the "hardest" operation I've done on a reloading press short of sizing 45/70 bullets @ .460 down to .452, with gas check, in one shot.

[RPRNY]

Yes, the Magtech hulls. They are extremely thin when compared to paper or plastic which most loading tools are designed for.

The Lee Loader Classic is their old no press kit for hand loading. It has a sizing die but between the Magtech hulls being short at 2.5 " and thin vs plastic or paper, it won't crimp.

[Whiterabbit]

OK, I hear you there. I thought you meant thin as in deforms easy.

[montana_charlie]

Here is the basis for an idea to make a taper crimper.

Find a piece of 'tube' -- Outer diameter greater than your brass shell, inner diameter smaller than your brass shell.
It can be a piece of water pipe, a shaft collar, anything made of steel (or iron) that is about an inch long, with square-cut ends.

Taper the inside of one end.
Replacement handles (for rakes, hoes, pushbrooms, etc) often have a tapered end that is 'wedged' into the tool, then pinned.
Buy the handle, cut off the tapered end leaving enough length 'to work with', and store the stick for future projects.

Wrap emery cloth (wet/dry sandpaper) on the taper. Mount the stick, or the tube, in a vise and start to spin whichever one is in your hand, with some pressure applied.

Oil or water makes the paper stay free of buildup, and you get to use fresh grit as you move deeper into the 'tube'.

Some light preparation with a sharp half-round file can remove a good bit of metal from the inner corner to save time and paper.
If you are good with a file (and some people are) you can do the entire taper with that half-round, and just use the tapered wood and paper to do the final finishing.

When the tapered tube (now called a crimp die) is ready, glue it to, or press it into, a length of wood (or metal) that is rigid enough to apply pressure without bending. Place the die near one end, leaving room to attach a hinge to that same end.
The long end of this 'lever' will be the handle.

Hinge one end of the 'lever' to an upright surface that has an adjoining horizontal surface (like a wall and your bench).
The horizontal is far enough below the hinged end to allow a shell to stand on the horizontal surface while the 'die' is levered down onto the mouth.

The spacing between the hinge and the horizontal is critical to get a 'square crimp' when the die is levered downward onto the mouth of the shell.

I hope that my words paint a clear enough picture for you to 'see' this taper crimper, because I don't have any pictures to clarify the words.

[RPRNY]

Got it, I think. It certainly makes sense. Identifying the right diameter "pipe" will be the challenge.

Hope you saw my post above acknowledging that it was my use of the term "primer" that was facetious rather than your suggestion it was not necessary.

[montana_charlie]

Hope you saw my post above acknowledging that it was my use of the term "primer" that was facetious rather than your suggestion it was not necessary.

Yep, I saw it. No need to worry about it. I figured you were stepping back from using 'primer', but I had to make myself clear.

Hoping the idea has some use for you ... good luck.

[Whiterabbit]

rpr,

I was goofing around tonight in the shop. the lathe was already set to 14 tpi from a bullet feed die idea I was playing with last week. I tried this:





made it from steel tube, 1" OD 5/8" ID. maybe stainless, maybe alloy, maybe carbon. I can't remember at this point. It's in the tumbler now, jangling around.

It's rough, and I have no desire to finish it, polish the ID, put proper chamfers on it, I don;t think I even faced the bottom 100% and definitely not the back. But the threads fit, and with some TLC, a die is a die.

Want it? I'm just gonna toss it in the project box and forget about it if you don't, but if you do, it doesn't have much value to me (other than the thread cutting practice, of which they look like ****, but do fit.....)

((I'm a 10-pm to midnight kids-are-in-bed machinist. Which is to say, not a machinist!))

[RPRNY]

You're a star! I'll take it. Will pm with address and your preference on shipping reimbursement.

[Whiterabbit]

BTW magnet doesn't stick, and cold blue beads up and rolls off. It's stainless.

Next time I am getting 7/8" pipe. half the time spent on that die was reducing the OD to the major thread diameter. The point was to practice thread cutting, not to practice wearing out my tools turning down OD's!



(having a lathe and mill is so great)

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Have you recovered bullets from behind the target, or from game? It would be good to establish that they are staying engraved, and if not, a slightly larger ball would be advisable. That 25 yard accuracy is very usable, but a smoothbore with ball, or a rifled barrel failing to act rifled, can be much less than a quarter as accurate at a hundred. Rare as it may be in your style of pig shooting, that sort of shot is likely to be demanded occasionally.

I'd agree that a very light crimp is better than tape or glue. One so light as to have no effect on brass life should retail the ball perfectly,

[Whiterabbit]

it's a 50 yard group. The target is a B8, 25 yard rapid fire pistol target. X-ring is 1.775" across.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

it's a 50 yard group. The target is a B8, 25 yard rapid fire pistol target. X-ring is 1.775" across.

Sorry, I should have noticed that. But it is still the sort of offhand group that might have been obtainable if the rifling was failing, or failing with the occasional round, and eliminating any such problem would give you longer range it is well worthwhile to have.

[Whiterabbit]

Can't fault that idea.

[RPRNY]

I meant to get out yesterday to chronograph the load and give it a try at 100 yards but life got in the way. I have bumped out a couple of balls to @ .630 to see what, if any, effect that may have, so there will be some means of comparison.

Will advise once I get a chance.

[flint45]

looks like a great project.

[RPRNY]

Interesting.

Chrono'd at 1210 Fps, with a 12 Fps SD.

Tried it at 100 yards and was quite surprised. Worst group was 2 touching and the 3rd 3.5" low. Best group was 1.75" and the average was under 2.5"



Would love to get 1300 Fps out of it but I think I'm looking at diminishing returns with more powder. Will take it up to @ 95 grs and see what's happening.

[Whiterabbit]

how much alternative charge data do you have? can you share? (charge, speed, and SD)

[RPRNY]

WR,

I have none. I'm making it up as I go along. The 1210 is with 83 grs of Old Eynsford (listed in original post). While the receiver is good to 65,000 psi, I have no idea what the barrel is proofed for. I'm fairly sure that it will take 4 drams but I'm not sure that I will get full combustion in a 24" barrel, so I'm going to see what, if any velocity increase I get at 95 grs.

Are you back yet? PM address and I'll send some wads and 62 cal ball.

Sent from my KFOT using Tapatalk

[Whiterabbit]

Nope! I come home Saturday. It's about dinner time now.