Critique please - first pp

[knewmans]

First effort paper patching. Any comments welcome.

This is for my Pedersoli Sharps 45/70. I don't cast so I'm stuck with commercial bullets. These are soft lead 535gr Postells and I wasn't happy with the fit. They had to be way out of the case to engage the lands. Paper patching seemed worth a try.

They were sized down to .452 (bore .450) and wrapped with green ruled printer paper (thought I'd seen the last of that 20 years ago). They fit in once fired cases without sizing, without any damage to the paper and without swaging the bullets. The dummy round in the picture will just chamber.

Plan is to load some over 23 to 25 gr Accurate 5744 to try.

Thanks
Ken

[Lead pot]

You didn't say what the finished diameter of that patched bullet was. It you sized that unpatched bullet down to .452" and wrapped that paper that might be .0034" thick you will have a bullet .465" plus. Even if that bullet is soft you will raise your chamber pressure using the smokeless powder.
The Pedersoli must have a lot of freebore to be able to chamber that diameter bullet.

[knewmans]

The paper is .003 dry thickness.

The patches were wrapped wet. Finished dry diameter over the driving bands .462. Immediately in front before the ogive its .458.

The freebore (the section between the chamber which is case diameter and the start of the rifling) as measured off an impact cast is .459.

Too big?

[Old Coot]

That is a very nice job of patching Knewmans. I don't shoot a 4570 but your load should be very mild and completely safe. I have a couple of rifles with throats like yours and the only practical way to shoot them is by paper patch, or a custom mold. Good luck and let us know how things work out. Brodie

[montana_charlie]

The patched bullets look fine if you are happy with how far up on the ogive they reach.
Your bullets are two thousandths smaller than mine, but your paper is a bit thicker.
If they slip-fit in a fired case, they are the right diameter for your gun.

If you experience gas cutting or any other 'bump-up related' issue ... switch to black powder and it will be resolved.

[knewmans]

Where up the ogive would be your preference?

[montana_charlie]

Where up the ogive would be your preference?

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with yours.
If you want them to hit the rifling ... and those do that ... then they are just right.

But, the point where the ogive breaks is generally considered to be the correct position for the leading edge of the patch.

[knewmans]

Ill give that a try. Thanks

[303Guy]

Those look pretty good in my opinion. I do notice differences in patch height in the three examples. What I did was I created a patch template design that I printed out on the patch sheet. I would then cut the patches out with scissors (quite painful) and roll them on. The templates had guide lines on them so I could get them positioned correctly. I don't know how critical that is though. Probably not too critical.

All we need now are the target results! Looking forward to those.

[barrabruce]

very nice wraps
May wanna rub some 50/50 bw /vasalene on the patch for a lube...or anything else you have handy.

[knewmans]

I wasn't sure about the differences in height. I think I'll make up a guide.

I did shoot a few yesterday to get some sort of zero and chronograph them. Although they all chambered I think the height difference meant some were more difficult. One patch tore as it was chambered.

The only lube I have is Alox. would this be ok?

I wasn't really trying for accuracy and it was only 25yards. Hopefully longer range with a second batch next week.

Thanks for the comments

[Old Coot]

I have used Johnson's Paste Wax in the past. You can use ALox, but it is kind of messy since it stays sticky. I would not recommend it for use on rounds carried into the field to hunt with. You can also use : STP, case lube, just about any paste wax although I would avoid heavy "Self Cleaning" auto waxes. Lube on paper patch bullets cuts down on the friction with the bore, and the barrel does not heat up as quickly. Handy for those long sessions at the range. Brodie

[knewmans]

I can find some wax.

[303Guy]

Aah yes, patch lube. My procedure is to roll the patched boolit on my STP soaked lube pad then seating. This lubes the paper for easy seating. The STP then soaks away leaving a good neck grip on the boolit. It does make a difference on firing. I found I needed more powder (and velocity) to get full patch disintegration.

[OverMax]

Most paper is translucent Ken. Because of that. I don't see the Cut Ends of your patch lines up against each other or even a small gap left between them. Overlapping or under-lapping of patchs ends either create high spot or a weak spot on/in the papers wrap. I've been told & read here & there to patch correctly those Diagonal Cuts Ends need to line-up very close to each other. As close as possible to eliminate those (2-above) situations. Now you know reason why the ends of a paper patch are cut diagonally and also opposite of each other. >so's to match them up as close as possible when tightly wrapped.

[knewmans]

I managed to get the cut edges to butt pretty well. It was easier towards the ogive and less so at the base because of the difference in diameter. I made the patch shorter rather than longer. I then found that rolling the bullet between the board I was using and a ruler tightened and stretched the patch enough to bring the ends together.

Should the folded over portion at the base cover the whole base as Paul Mathew suggests in his book?

[OS OK]

Attachment 167569

I don't paper patch, just read the threads because I like to learn all the aspects of our hobby. I keep reading about some of the fellas that make a comment about cutting those patches with scissors…well…here's a couple of cheap paper cutters from the office supply that I've had around for years. They cut clean without snags and do it fast…maybe you fellas already use these or something else better, but I thought I'd hang it out there just in case.

charlie

[barrabruce]

OS OK
Looks good but do they come in a size I can put in a small container and also do they chamfer cases mouths and scrape out primer pockets.
Nice but I think I'll keep me scissors.
I fold my paper over 4x and mark and cut 8 at time. 40 per a4 paper size for 30 cal.
Fast and good enough for me.

Cheers

[303Guy]

I use scissors because my patches are tapered and so require a curved top and bottom. One day I'll make a punch and die set to mass cut them.

I have used the rolling with a plastic ruler trick to make the ends meet too. My method now is to dry wrap and twist-turn until the paper stretches to close the gap.

[OS OK]

Sorry fellas…I told you I was just watching and trying to learn…didn't mean to offend…I'll just keep quiet on any further discussion.

OS OK