Lee PrecisionRepackboxLoad DataWideners
Reloading EverythingInline FabricationTitan ReloadingMidSouth Shooters Supply
RotoMetals2 Snyders Jerky
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 33

Thread: Significant users' observations on powders?

  1. #1
    Moderator Emeritus

    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    7,620

    Significant users' observations on powders?

    Fellas, you guys have positively RUINT me! THANKS! I want to get some of these surplus powders, now. Have never tried them, though, so was wondering if you've noted any general characteristics with any of them, such as larger than expected pressure excursions with relatively small increases in charge wt. I know ball powders of ALL types, regardless of make, are sometimes noted to produce large pressure increases with small increases of charge wt., so just want to be aware of any such observations you've noted.

    Specific powders I think I may be interested in getting are WC-820, WC-680, and IIRC, WC-844 and 846 (the H335 & BLC2 rated milsurp powders). Any info on the others would of corse be appreciated by myself and others who hang out here, too, though, so ALL info you can contribute would be appreciated, I know.

    Re the comment about ball powders, I think ALL powders CAN give some unexpected results, and that's one of the values of having a chrono. Once got some VERY large (over 100 fps!) variations with IMR-4320 in my Ackleyized Whelen with 250 gr. bullets, and THIS is "THE" classic powder for the std. Whelen, so I want to acknowledge and make CLEAR that I know that ALL LOADS WITH ALL POWDERS MUST BE SUBSTANTIATED AND THIS INQUIRY AND ALL ANSWERS THERETO MUST BE CONSIDERED AS INDIVIDUAL INSTANCES AND NOT NECESSARILY AS GENERALIZED CRITICISMS OF ANY OF THESE POWDERS.

    I know most in our world today LIKE to think of every pursuit as being foolproof, but that just ain't so, and this thread and all responses to should be considered on their own individual merits and NOT misapplied across the board without good and substantial reason. My 4320 load for my Whelen is just one example of an individual powder/load combo that for some as yet unknown reason didn't work in MY gun, but MAY work in yours.

    There, did that do a half decent job of acknowledging that I'm just looking for any warning signs you've all run into? Thanks for any observations you can provide.

    That 820 sure seems to be a fine powder for the big revolvers, particularly the magnums like the .357 & .44.

    Anyone noted where, pressure wise, 846 & 844 tend to give best accuracy in most applications you've tried it in? I, for instance, have noted that IMR-4064 tends to shoot best at just under max, while 4350's tend to shoot best (most often) right at max in most guns I've tried.

    Accuracy/pressure considerations are what I'm mainly after, but all other worthy observations are appreciated.

  2. #2
    Boolit Master

    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    WESTERN PENNSYLVANIA
    Posts
    2,138
    Blackwater,

    I use the WC-820 (lot # 47320), WC-680 (lot # 47269) and WC-844 (lot # 726 although that number is probably not the actual lot #. It was purchased from McDonald).
    I use the WC-820 in the 357 and 44 Magnums with cast bullets. My lot loads exactly with AA # 9 data. I have shot loads with #9 and 820 side by side and they chronograph the “same” velocities—I think they are the same powders, at least my lot is. WC-680 is loaded with AA-1680 data and shoots the predicted velocities as indicated in the Accurate reloading manuals. I don’t use much of it. Limited use in the 44 Magnum and the 445 Super Magnum. Don’t seem to be a real useful powder for my needs. Now then, the WC-844 is one of my favorites. Sure wish I would have purchased many more 8-pound kegs! Mine is a grain or two slower than the 8-pound keg of H-335 that I have. The WC-844 shoots cast extremely well in the 7-30 Waters and the 30-30 Winchester barrels for my Contender. The 844 shoots unbelievable in my T/C 16” 223 Remington barrel that I have for my Contender. A 45 jacketed slug trucks along at near 3200 fps (probably near or at maximum load) and shoots honest 1+ inch groups at 200 yards. I shot ‘chucks with it the past summer at 234 yards (the longest shot) but many were right at the 200+ yard mark. So, did I get any dangerous surprises—Nope. I just used recommended data and started low and worked my way up the line. I have other surplus powders also, and they have been predictable with pressures if good data and common sense were used. Good-luck…BCB

  3. #3
    Boolit Master on Heavens Range
    felix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    fort smith ar
    Posts
    9,678
    Blackwater, a couple of points. Any sharp shouldered case will make a given powder faster in burning rate, perhaps a jump or two in the "charts". Most, if not all, medium speed or slower powders on the chart do work best at higher pressures, say 35K minimum cup. This means that it takes more slow powder than the case will hold to get to 35K. Not good for condom boolits, but sometimes good for lead projectiles, because for the most part the lead boolits are limited to 2400 fps for any continuance in accuracy. ... felix
    felix

  4. #4
    Banned

    PatMarlin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    6,341
    Blackwater...
    you sure your weren't a little "RUINT" before we got to ya?.

  5. #5
    Banner Sponsor

    lar45's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Arkansas
    Posts
    2,832
    WC820 may need a Mag Primer to get it started in cold weather.
    Partial case fills on a 44 mag worked fine for low velocities around 800fps.
    It seems to burn faster in a 357 case then when used in 454.
    In the 454, I need 2 gns less WC820 to get the same velocity as 296.
    It is bulkier than 296, so you can't get the same charge weight in the case when full.
    WC680 Needs a mag primer to avoid squibs in the 45-70 with partial case fills.
    Both seem to burn fine in an 06 or 30-30 case with 10gns and a regular pistol primer.

    IMR 5010 should not be shot over a chronograph when used in straight walled cases. It left a few grain sized holes in my display

    I wish I had a jug of WC844 to try. I may get some surplus IMR 4895.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master on Heavens Range
    felix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    fort smith ar
    Posts
    9,678
    Lar, get 4895, 844 (223C), 846 in one shipment and you will have all medium speed apps covered. If powder valley has these three, also get the data 73 for something a little closer to 3031. ... felix
    felix

  7. #7
    Boolit Mold
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    NY
    Posts
    21
    Felix, If I may ask, how does the Surp 4895 compare to the commercial stuff in burning speed? Fairly close?

    Thanks

  8. #8
    Boolit Master on Heavens Range
    felix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    fort smith ar
    Posts
    9,678
    Close, but no guarantee of how close. There have been hundreds of lots of this particular number, and made by various plants. I would guess plus or minus 10 percent about the average burning rate. ... felix
    felix

  9. #9
    Boolit Mold
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    NY
    Posts
    21
    Thanks Felix.


  10. #10
    Boolit Master on Heavens Range
    felix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    fort smith ar
    Posts
    9,678
    Headstamp, a great show! Thanks for the NEW felix logo. Now, should I use it instead of the felix carrying the bomb? ... felix
    felix

  11. #11
    Boolit Mold
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    NY
    Posts
    21
    I actually like the bomber nose art. Although this one is interesting.

    Here's a few sites for you if ya like.

    http://felix.goldenagecartoons.com/ftcclassicfilms.html

    http://images.google.com/images?q=fe...&start=20&sa=N

  12. #12
    Boolit Man
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Central Arkansas
    Posts
    91
    Quote Originally Posted by Headstamp
    Felix, If I may ask, how does the Surp 4895 compare to the commercial stuff in burning speed? Fairly close?

    Thanks

    I would like to ask if the surp 4895 is stick or ball powder? Are any of the surp powders stick or all they mostly ball type?

    Bill
    Last edited by BlueMoon; 10-25-2005 at 10:38 AM.

  13. #13
    Boolit Master
    sundog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Green Country Oklahoma
    Posts
    3,500
    BlueMoon, I know the answer to your question. Surp IMR 4895 is new manufacture, and I can't tell the difference between it (looks or burn rate) and the stuff you pay alot for that comes out of the purple can (cannister). Certainly worth the price! What I noticed especially is the very aromatic ether smell when I first opened the jug. Seems very new and very fresh!

    Funny you should ask, because I burned some last evening when I got home from work. 33 gr with a 314299 sized to .311 with FWFL, seated to lightly engrave, and shot in a RI 03 HS bbl with Lyman peeps. One holer at 50 yards for 3 shots. 35 gr gave a 3/4 inch horizontal spread. Bore is clean as a whistle! Gonna 'spearmint' with this load some more.... sundog

  14. #14
    Boolit Man
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Central Arkansas
    Posts
    91
    Thanks Sundog,

    I may have to get a jug of that. Felix said it may vary 10% in speed, and that makes sense, but I got to thinking of 3031 to 4064-4320 and that's still usefull.

    Bill

  15. #15
    Boolit Man
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Central Arkansas
    Posts
    91
    I ordered 8#'s of 4895 and WC820(n) from Hitech ammo out of St. Louis. I ordered online but wish I had called instead. I never did get to see the final bill with the hazmat added but the shipping was $8. I've already got 8lb jugs of AA's 4350, 4064, and 2230-C so I hope I'll be set on bulk powder. I got a email this evening that the powder was shipped and should be here friday but I've never delt with a place that didn't show a complete bill first.

    Bill

  16. #16
    Boolit Master on Heavens Range
    felix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    fort smith ar
    Posts
    9,678
    Bill, Hitech is honest, so don't worry about it. If a mistake is made, it is a mistake only. ... felix
    felix

  17. #17
    Banned

    PatMarlin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    6,341
    I just ordered from Hitech over the phone, and got some 4895 also and 820, 872, but made up a hazmat fee waved order.

    Sundog-

    I just bought a 314299, and can't wait to try here in my fat thutty aught six. Maybe my 300 whinney too..
    Last edited by PatMarlin; 10-26-2005 at 09:28 PM.

  18. #18
    Boolit Master


    fecmech's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Buffalo NY area
    Posts
    4,033
    Dan I believe is the name of the fellow at Hytech and a very accomodating guy. I called him about a month ago and said I would be passing thru St Louis on a Saturday and could I get some powder on my way. He told me to call when I was a couple hours out and he'd meet me with the stuff at his place. Worked out great, He's not far off the by-pass and with no hasmat or shipping fee the primers and powder were dirt cheap. Nick

  19. #19
    Boolit Man
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Central Arkansas
    Posts
    91
    Quote Originally Posted by felix
    Bill, Hitech is honest, so don't worry about it. If a mistake is made, it is a mistake only. ... felix

    Thanks, thats kinda what I thought. I've heard nothing but good things about these people.

    Bill

  20. #20
    Moderator Emeritus

    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    7,620
    HiTec has primers too? DANG! I AM ruint now!

    And Pat, ya' got me!

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check