I WAS going to buy a "new" Inland Manufacturing Carbine.

[JSnover]

Well, his signature line does claim "able to leap to conclusions in a single bound."

And Cap'n, I have a pretty handy little 12 gauge for home defense, though I'm sure you think the chamber pressure is far too low to injure anyone. Silly carbine nut, .308 is for engaging targets from a distance, waaaaaay out beyond bayonet range.

[JSnover]

Thanks for hijacking the thread. An 11 pound rifle doesn't seem as if it's a "jump up and grab it at 3:00 a.m." affair. Of course dubber123, you're perfect, so don't worry about it. The busybodies and know-it-alls come out of the woodwork and proclaim their superiority.

Dude, all anyone did was answer your question and attempt to inform you. Get a grip. If your mind was already made up, why did you even ask?

[dubber123]

Thanks for hijacking the thread. An 11 pound rifle doesn't seem as if it's a "jump up and grab it at 3:00 a.m." affair. Of course dubber123, you're perfect, so don't worry about it. The busybodies and know-it-alls come out of the woodwork and proclaim their superiority.

Perfect? Not hardly. I do tend to get irritated when people rabidly defend a weak opinion to the point of making themselves look foolish. Maybe speaking up will get me a time out this time. Your obstinate, irritable behavior towards the more knowledgeable members here when they express opinions different than yours may garner you a time out. Again.

[Captain O]

Perfect? Not hardly. I do tend to get irritated when people rabidly defend a weak opinion to the point of making themselves look foolish. Maybe speaking up will get me a time out this time. Your obstinate, irritable behavior towards the more knowledgeable members here when they express opinions different than yours may garner you a time out. Again.

Are light rifles the same as a full battle rifle? I'm sorry, I didn't know that either a .223 or .221 Fireball were on a par with either the .308 Winchester or .30-'06. What could I have been thinking?

[MaryB]

Everyone tone it down!

[Captain O]

Well, his signature line does claim "able to leap to conclusions in a single bound."

And Cap'n, I have a pretty handy little 12 gauge for home defense, though I'm sure you think the chamber pressure is far too low to injure anyone.

No one said that a 12 gauge wouldn't work. I'd be willing to bet it's a bit harder on the ears. The muzzle blast on a 12 gauge shotgun is abusive on the range, let alone inside the house. It's very effective, but also damaging. After an exposure such as that, it will likely cause permanent hearing loss. Shotguns tend to do that.

[runfiverun]

HOLY COW !
come on you guy's.
I thought we were in the pit for a minute.

[Captain O]

I'm sorry, I just can't see the point in shooing either a shotgun (deafening and disorienting by any measure) or a full-sized .308 Winchester indoors! You can get by with an AR-15 or an M1 Carbine. I just can't see the advantage of attempting to blow a 5" inch hole in someone and not only destroying my hearing, but disorienting the daylights out of myself with a shotgun blast.

The "light rifles" will stop/kill v quickly without the horrendous muzzle blast of the heavier rifle. You can stop just about any fight with the M1 Carbine within 50 yards. At 30 feet? More than 900 foot pound of energy is rather decisive (You also have anywhere from 10 to 30 rounds of in "on tap"). All this without the "BOOM" of either the shotgun or the full-blown "battle rifle".

[Ed in North Texas]

What "pistol cartridge" operates at 38,500 psi? The 9 x 23 does, but it was introduced in 1992. The .30 Carbine is not a pistol/revolver cartridge. Every time it is fired in either a pistol or revolver there is a large muzzle blast and fireball. This is caused by unburned propellant, resulting in a substantial power loss.

Let's end the erroneous assertion that "the .30 Carbine is a pistol cartridge" here and now. It is not now, nor has ever been a "pistol cartridge".

Thank you.

Let's see - the 7.63x25mm Mauser cartridge, developed from the Borschardt cartridge and introduced with the Model 1896 "Broomhandle" Mauser pistol, doesn't make 38,500 PSI, but converting the CIP standard of 2500 atmospheres to PSI gives us 36,740 PSI. And the 7.63x25mm most certainly IS a pistol cartridge - and a very old one at that.

OK, I'll agree that it wasn't developed as a pistol cartridge. It is just a pipsqueak carbine cartridge fielded with the carbine as a tool to give those who would otherwise have been TO&E equipped with the M-1911A1 pistol a better chance to hit what they were supposed to be aiming at (if nothing else, they had 15 opportunities instead of seven).

Seriously, it did fairly well in the Pacific campaigns, but by all reports was a mixed blessing in Korea against PLA troops in winter insulated uniform coats.

P.S. If you think the 7.62x51mm has "horrendous muzzle blast", you ain't seen muzzle blast. Try the M-110 240mm/8" Howitzer (SP) throwing a 200 pound projo for muzzle blast.

[Char-Gar]

You didn't get the answers you wanted so you decided everyone else was wrong. You'll obviously waste your time and your money, which is your right.
Good luck.

I have noticed that quite a few of the recent members/posters fit your description. They don't want answers or input, they want affirmation and will accept nothing less.

[ashhoe]

Women in modern military cary full decked out m16a4 and weighs over 11 pounds with fleshlight

WHEN the army of women come marching in, armed with "fleshlights", I will surrender so fast MY head will spin.
AND I will fire on any who try to stop me.
MY captors, not yours.

[fatelk]

I have noticed that quite a few of the recent members/posters fit your description. They don't want answers or input, they want affirmation and will accept nothing less.

Just so you guys know, the op of this thread has been posting the same exact kind of threads recently on at least two other forums that I know of, with the exact same kind of results: arguments, fights, and sharp, snide comments and come-backs that stop just short of getting one banned.

Whether intentional or not, some folks just have a knack for irritating and angering others wherever they go, and are really, really good at it from years of practice. These people seem to enjoy that kind of back and forth because they are good at it and you simply are not going to win with them; getting into it with them is what they like, and yes, I do realize that I'm opening myself up here to an expertly crafted cutting response that I expect will be coming.

I apologize if I've misjudged anyone, but I have noticed a certain pattern here and several other forums.

Added: just in case it's not obvious, this was not aimed at you Char-Gar. No offense intended.

[Lloyd Smale]

1300 bucks for an m1 carbine?? that boggles my mind. Ive owned 3 of them (now knowing I should have held on to them) last ones I bought were a pair of them. One like new and one a good shooter but beat up wood and finish. Paid 50 bucks for the pair and he threw in 12 mags. That was the late 60s though. Sold them both for 150 bucks each along with my other one in the early 80s and though I was stealing money. You could buy a new 3030 for that then. I still remember buying 50 round boxes of ball for a buck a box off a master sargent that worked in the armory of the afb near by. I'm sure he didn't have permission to sell it!!!! Actually was my first deer rifle and I probably killed a dozen deer with them. Probably a bit undergunned but luckily nobody told the deer!!!!!!

[Kosh75287]

I'd STILL rather have 8 rounds of .357 Mag over 15 rounds of .30 U.S.C. Roughly same range and trajectory, larger holes in and out, with no real sacrifice in penetration.

Additionally, a lever-action Rossi, Marlin or Winchester may be constantly reloaded between shots or shot strings without ever being out of battery. Not so, the .30 U.S.C.

Just my thoughts.

[Captain O]

Lloyd: That was about 48 years ago. This is 2016. The CMP is completely out of M1 Carbines.

Kosh: I'm not too worried about "firing out of battery" with a Carbine of modern (and excellent) manufacture. And, yes, I have a Rossi Model 92 lever action carbine in .357 Magnum. (I can still load the Carbine faster).

[nun2kute]

This is 2am Entertainment, at it's finest

[JSnover]

Kosh: I'm not too worried about "firing out of battery" with a Carbine of modern (and excellent) manufacture. And, yes, I have a Rossi Model 92 lever action carbine in .357 Magnum. (I can still load the Carbine faster).

Probably no need to dust off this thread but I'd bet Kosh was talking about being able to fire during the reload.

[mtnman31]

I never saw this thread the first time around. It was entertaining reading.
I always have to laugh when someone makes a choice or is concerned about how loud a firearm (to be used for self defense) is. How many times in the average person's life are they going to be in a situation where they actually have to discharge their shotgun/rifle/pistol inside their home, while defending it? For 99.9% of us, that would be never. In the rare instance, when I would have to shoot my gun in actual self-defense, I don't give a hoot how loud it is. I only want it to stop the threat. How loud a gun is doesn't even make my Top 50 list concerns. Within reason - obviously, I don't want to touch off a .50 BMG indoors (for a multitude of reasons). A shotgun being too loud for home defense is a ridiculous notion, in my humble opinion.

Look on the flip side of the coin. I guess if a shotgun was that loud, maybe upon firing that first shot, the bad guys in the other room would hear it and think, "That is one loud gun! Maybe, I should leave." I guess if noise in a home defense situation is that big of a concern, get a suppressed .45... and then deal with the future lawsuits from the perp's family accusing you of not playing fair because you used an assassin's gun and "ambushed" their sweet, misunderstood kid.

[upnorthwis]

Reminds me of the difference between shooting a rifle at a target or at a deer. With the target, I better have the muffs on or I won't be hearing for a day. After shooting a deer, I don't remember even hearing the gun go off. Maybe it's the adrenalin.
Oh yes, and for the record, I do own one of the new Inland .30 carbines. I won't be laying awake at night thinking it's going to explode because it's a casting.

[Texas by God]

To my particular shade of deafness, a shotgun is NOT as loud as a pistol or deer rifle!

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