Please weigh in on why you cast for rifles

[theTastyCat]

Hey all - I'm firmly on the fence (which is uncomfortable) about whether I should dive headlong into casting for some rifles of mine.

Here's my biggest issue: I'm aware of the limitations of cast. I'm thinking primarily about my .308 AR; I would like to shoot it more, but j-words are expensive, and I think I'd feel much more free to shoot it more often if I were rolling my own. But, there is a velocity threshold for cast, and so I know I'd be dealing with a considerably less potent loading than I would with j-words.

Which really is OK - I've read elsewhere here that when hunting with cast, people are adjusting their acceptable range of engagement to be sure they've got the power to kill ethically. But deep, deep down inside me, the 2% of me that is a survivalist wants my guns, and the ammo which I craft for them, to be delivering at the fullness of their potential. At the same time, my 2% survivalist is secretly delighted that I'd have the ability to create my own boolits in case the wheels come off of society. Which has a .000007% chance of happening.

Another "flaw in the slaw" as the late, great Roscoe P. Coltrane would say, is that I primarily shoot these rifles suppressed - which for me means powdercoated boolits and no gas checks, since if one came loose it would mean the end of a *very* expensive suppressor! I've never used gas checks and honestly I'm fairly ignorant of when a gas check would be used but my general idea is that they help even the push on the rear of the bullet, so if I didn't use one at higher velocities, this might limit me further in accuracy and velocity.

So - I suppose the biggest question I have for those of you who cast for rifles is this: do you do it so you can shoot more, rezeroing your rifle for these reduced loads? I would imagine casting for rifles gives a satisfaction of its own even at the expense of full cartridge potential, and if you ever did need full cartridge potential, you would just rezero...

Trying to figure out if I would be best to stick with j-words for my rifles and cast for my pistols and subsonic rifles instead!

Sorry that this has hardly any focus at all! I really appreciate any responses.

[JSnover]

What is the purpose of your suppressor, to keep the noise down for your own benefit, or because you don't want to give away your location? If silent or near-silent shooting is your gaol, you have to load them to subsonic velocities anyway.
What kind of game are you hunting and how far do you expect to shoot? You may get adequate terminal performance at lower-than-factory jacketed bullet velocities. In other words, cast boolits will do just fine, there's no reason to avoid them for fear of reduced performance.
Hit the "Hunting With Cast Boolits" section, you'll probably find all the load data you need there.

[dverna]

Listen to popper. He has done a lot of work with his AR in .308.

[RogerDat]

No experience with that particular firearm and cast but ask yourself the total cost to have the option to shoot cast. Not is the cast projectile the most potent, or least expensive, or more/less accurate. Simply if I wanted to take some of that block of lead and make a hundred rounds for that rifle what would I have to have, and what would it cost.

Mold for that caliber.
Oven to powder coat
Some PC and a plastic bowl
Gas Checks or Check Maker
Sizer or sizing die that is suitable for doing gas checks.

Maybe an M die or one of the plugs NOE sells that fit in the Lee Universal expanding die that make it into an M die. - I think you will want to size the neck for cast so you don't swage the bullet undersized when you seat it. Just a guess.

Once you have a process and recipe that yields decent shooting ammo from then on you have options, and it isn't like the mold or any of that other stuff is going to lose a bunch of value if you don't use it often.

It may also be fun to see what you can work out to give you an optimum cast bullet ammo, different loads or molds to find what yields the best results. However having done the basic work to insure I can make em if I need em has a lot to be said for it. Heck I'm not sure if I can make some semi-auto rifle ammo cheaper than I can buy the cheap steel stuff on sale. But the powder and primers allow me to load for multiple calibers I can cast for even if the cheap stuff is nowhere to be found. Heck it takes a long time to prep the brass, cast 1k bullets and load 1000 rounds, but I can choose to do it anytime I wish. Or buy ready made if that is what I want.... and it is available.

[jeffkopf]

Totally agree with RogerDat! Don't go crazy with it. Just start slow, experiment, find out what works and then you have options!


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[rockrat]

I cast because I am che--err frugal. At least that is how it started out decades ago.

[MT Gianni]

I like to shoot, think it is fun. Shooting cast is the only way I can compete in cast only matches. My goal is to make all shots touch, though it rarely happens. I am competing against myself much of the time trying to outdo the previous effort. There is a huge amount of personal satisfaction knowing you made your own ammo from the bullet out, not just assembled it. The fact that I can hunt with what I cast is secondary though by no means less pleasureful.

[Lead Fred]

They are custom fit to my rifles

[victorfox]

Please educate me if I'm wrong since I never shot a rifle more powerful than 44-40 and never reloaded anything but shotshells. A .30 cal cast boolit at about 170gr should fly at about 1800-2200, right? This should be a nice round since it has a good SD and would probably penetrate well and expand. I'm thinking hunting and defense. Or I mixed everything?

[RU shooter]

I started casting because I was tired of having a sore shoulder after our twice a month CMP type rifle matches . That along with being much cheaper to reload , was shooting on average of 180-200 rds a month even buying "cheap" jacketed bullets gets expensive ! and always having a supply of bullets is always a good thing and my accuracy out to 200 yds is enough to keep me competitive in that type of sport . Being frugal/cheap as I am casting my own and using way less powder was and still is great my match rifle has not seen a regular bullet in years and probably never will again

[RU shooter]

Please educate me if I'm wrong since I never shot a rifle more powerful than 44-40 and never reloaded anything but shotshells. A .30 cal cast boolit at about 170gr should fly at about 1800-2200, right? This should be a nice round since it has a good SD and would probably penetrate well and expand. I'm thinking hunting and defense. Or I mixed everything?

your correct that 170 gr 30 cal bullet is the same as what a 30/30 is and lots of things been killed with it over the years

[theTastyCat]

I love this forum. Many thanks for the insights - I'm going to go ahead and do it. Like many have said, it's just one more option to have. Who knows - I may get spoiled by the low recoil and cost efficiency and never go back!! Thanks, all.

[Screwbolts]

post 12 hits the mark, but, IMHO, you will never equal a 30-30 capability in an AR platform unless you were open to thinking ahead and got your AR with a 1x12 twist barrel, your rifle, IMHO will be ham strung with the fast twist common in AR30 factory barrels.

why, because we can shoot a lday long for less than the cost of 22 RF ammo. Should be self evident. Lots of trigger time, less money involved.

Ken

Ken

[N21911S]

1) To become a better rifleman, casting allows me to shoot more, being slightly less expensive and all around easier to shoot. 2) To compete in my clubs cast bullet silhouette matches. 3) The enjoyment of developing a harmonious load/rifle combination.

[dverna]

You do not need to cast to achieve lower recoil....that makes little sense. It is about cents...we cast to save money. Some cast to be self-sufficient...and that is important too...at least for me.

[GhostHawk]

3 years ago I inherited a nice little windfall. Call it early inheritance.
So for the first time I owed no one nothing, we had 2 cars newer than 20 years old and they both worked.
Still had a nice stash of money left. Don't want to put it into the stock market, forex, metal's. Those are all rigged and run by the truly big money boys.

So after some conversations with my wife I decided to invest it in us.

New bed for my wife, a good one.

Rifles for me after a 20 year hiatus, then a pistol or 2.

I did not want to waste that money. Bullets in .310 for Mosin or SKS were dang pricey even in bulk.
But a Lee mold was only 20$, then another one of course. Eventually bought some better tools, little used lee dipper pot bought here, presses, dies, etc.

I still say that if you are willing to be reasonable in powder loads, cast will do what jacketed does, perhaps just not quite as fast. Range lead at a dollar a pound is pretty reasonable, brings boolit price down to 2-4 cents each.

That makes a huge difference. It means you can shoot most any rifle/pistol as cheap as .22lr.
Some of mine are just about the same noise level, and a whole nother level of whoop-@$$ on the other end.

Now I continue because it is cheaper and easier to stockpile lead, tin, cast boolits on cold winter days when there is nothing better to do. And because the more rounds that fill up my ammo table the better I sleep at night.

Call me silly if you will. I believe happiness is a big pile of lead ingots, more than 16 lbs of Red Dot, and a GI .50 cal ammo can stuffed to the gills with primers. And more loaded ammo on hand than any 3 men would want to try to walk away with.

Kinda like knowing the freezer is full, the woodpile is big, split, stacked and ready, and knowing winter has to come, but not caring.

[C. Latch]

I once bought a rifle and a mold for it and after two years of very infrequent experimenting with it, sold it, and the mold, dies, and brass.

I doubt that I'll ever cast another rifle bullet again. For what I do with rifles, and how much I do it, jacketed bullets just simply work better. Hornady's bulk .224" bullets are too cheap to justify casting for the .223s and the other rifles don't get shot enough to justify the cost of a quality mold.

Casting for handguns is fun. For me, and the way I shoot, it's pointless for rifles. YMMV a lot.

[country gent]

I cast pistol bullets years ago and a few rifle bullets for practice varmints and finishing loads for deer hunting. ( a 300 win mag with a 180 grn cast bullet traveling at around 1500 fps is devastating as an up close round for finishing deer, varmints and plinking, along with much easier on the shoulder than full power 180grn reloads are on the shoulder). I cast rifle bullets now for BPCR where they are mandatory and most good ones cast for these rif;le in a useable hardness sized and lubed with correct Black powder lubes can run between $25.00 and $40.00 per 50. Im currently castin 335 grn and 365 grn for 38-55, 2 diffrent 400 grn for 40 cal, and 480 grn 500 grn 535 grn and 550 grn for 45 calibers. These are loaded in the 1100-1200 fps range and shot from 100yds to 500yds. Hoping to go farther with the big 45s someday. SO to get what I want / need I have to cast them

[mrrch]

I got into it because of the cost of ammo at first but now I spend more BUT now I shoot all the time.
it's just fun to me, the whole process from finding lead all the way to the finished product at the shooting bench and finding the "load" for that particular rifle.

[duckey]

Fun, money saving and I am a hobby nut.