What was the most powerful military round put into service?

[AbitNutz]

I was wondering what the most powerful round put into general service was. I'm not talking anything other than a shoulder fired rifle. No rifle grenades or RPG's. I'm thinking there was little to choose form between the 30-06, 8mm Mauser, 7.62x54r...even the .303 and 7.7 Japanese were awfully close...but which was top dog? Or was there a 19th century cartridge that dusted them all?

[quietmike]

The 45-70, if loaded to it's full potential, gets my vote.

[Vann]

50. BMG? Does it count?

[Hickok]

As a standard rifle round, I believe the German 8mm Mauser, 7.92x57 round with a 196-200 gr bullet had the best long range ballistics of any round in WWII. It out distanced the 150gr 30/06, as well as others.

[Tackleberry41]

There were some odd ones out there. They made anti tank rifles at the start of WW2 when tank armor was still light enough to be punched by a 'rifle'. Germans simply made the 8mm longer, and ended up with a 8x93. Bet that would really send a round down range with some oomph. Russians had one using the 14.5 mm round used in the heavy machine guns. British had the boyes rifle, it was 55 cal, guess it had to be different for the sake of being different vs just using 50bmg. Polish had their own, sort of based on the german round, again different for the sake of being different 7.92x104mm. Internet says it would launch a 225gr bullet at 4100fps. Finland had the Lahti, which at 20mm was technically cannon class vs a rifle. The Swiss had the Solothurn another 20mm. The Lahti was in theory man portable, the Solothrun was fired from a tripod like a heavy machine gun, no stock for your shoulder.

[Earlwb]

Yeah I was thinking of the large anti-tank rifles too. All of the major military forces used them up into WWII for while. The .50 BMG sniper rifles is another big one.

If you want something more conventional, then the .338 Lapua sniper rifles may be it. Some of them tend to look like the larger .50 BMG sniper rifles too.

Now then as mentioned already the venerable .45-70 was probably the most powerful early cartridge and gun. For the early trapdoor Springfields it was mild. But if I remember right they used to make a fairly hot load for the Gatlin Guns in .45-70 caliber. That would have been quite terrifying to be on the receiving end of a Naval ship firing .45-70 rounds at you on your boat or ship. Those bullets would punch through just about everything in their way.

[PAT303]

Are we talking infantry rifles or specialist ones?. Pat

[PAT303]

I was wondering what the most powerful round put into general service was. I'm not talking anything other than a shoulder fired rifle. No rifle grenades or RPG's. I'm thinking there was little to choose form between the 30-06, 8mm Mauser, 7.62x54r...even the .303 and 7.7 Japanese were awfully close...but which was top dog? Or was there a 19th century cartridge that dusted them all?

The Swedish Kulspruta m/36 cartridge was the most powerful,220grn bullet at 2500fps with a range of 5500m. Pat

[Ballistics in Scotland]

What's a rifle? There were quite a few 20mm. anti-tank rifles such as the Solothurn, mostly obsolete around the time they were built as far as anything but lighter armour was concerned. Possibly the .50 Browning might be disallowed because it was designed for machine-guns, and its use in rifles is incidental - and only rational in an anti-materiel role, rather than killing distant enemies deader than dead. A soldier half a mile from a field of jet fighters can dump the thing and run after an active minute, he and it both having earned their keep.

The German 13x94 anti-tank rifle round of the First World War was, apparently, designed for their Tank und Flieger machine-gun and a sort of giant single-shot Mauser with approximately an equal priority and timespan. It should have been extremely effective against the tanks of the time, but I think they appeared when the German war effort was no longer capable of putting enough of them into the right place at the right time. It was considered for the .50 Browning, but the round we know today, amounting to a almost exact scaled-up .30-06, was preferred. There was also a WW2 8x94 cartridge on almost the same huge case, for semiautomatic rifles which were produced in numbers disproportionate to their effectiveness.

Hermann Goering said that he could have won the Battle of Britain with the .50 Browning, but he needed an excuse at the time, and the decision not to have something similar was theirs. Most of the Tank und Flieger machine-guns, more or less a giant Maxim, were never issued, and were destroyed in their warehouses by Allied bombing.

[w5pv]

Would the 3.5" rocket luncher count it is fired from the shoulder and the recoil is like a mule kicking you.

[Hickok]

The Swedish Kulspruta m/36 cartridge was the most powerful,220grn bullet at 2500fps with a range of 5500m. Pat

Now there is one I never heard of. There goes my theory about the 7.92x57!

[OS OK]

I'd vote for any of the OP's listed rounds as long as there was a Marine behind it…'One Shot One Kill'…simple...

OS OK

[dtknowles]

Yeah I was thinking of the large anti-tank rifles too. All of the major military forces used them up into WWII for while. The .50 BMG sniper rifles is another big one.

If you want something more conventional, then the .338 Lapua sniper rifles may be it. Some of them tend to look like the larger .50 BMG sniper rifles too.

Now then as mentioned already the venerable .45-70 was probably the most powerful early cartridge and gun. For the early trapdoor Springfields it was mild. But if I remember right they used to make a fairly hot load for the Gatlin Guns in .45-70 caliber. That would have been quite terrifying to be on the receiving end of a Naval ship firing .45-70 rounds at you on your boat or ship. Those bullets would punch through just about everything in their way.

The 577/.450 Martini Henry was more powerful than the 45-70 and I don't know how you could make the .45-70 any hotter using blackpowder which was all they had at the time it was used in Gatlin Guns. They did make a down loaded round for use in Carbines.

Tim

[nicholst55]

The Navy SEALs at least used to have a single-shot McMillan .50 BMG bolt action rifle, used for long range sniping. Hardly a battle rifle or general-issue rifle, but still a conventional rifle. Just rather large. I've got a picture of me holding one somewhere.

[bruce drake]

Before the 45-70, the US Army had the 50-70 Govt with a 450gr lead bullet and 70gr of blackpowder. That Swedish 8x63 round that was earlier mentioned was a beast. SARCO has a bunch of those barrels available if anyone wants to play. Myself, I prefer to take a 8x57 barrel and rechamber it for 8mm-06 for my ultimate shoulder whacker. I used the LEE 240gr 8mm Maximum mold for mine.

[northmn]

At the turn of the century the 8mm Mauser (7.92X57) was redone to take a 150 grain bullet at 2880 fps. Due to the effect of hydrostatic shock it was considered more deadly up close and gave longer practical range. Up to that time most military units were using 200 plus grain bullets at around 2100 fps. Some like the Spanish used the 7mm at 175 grains a little. The German development at least contributed to the US development of the 30-06. The 304- Krag and the 303 British laoded at 220 and 215 respectively, esentially the same performance were found wanting at close range when the enemy was close and carrying edged weapons. The Kriss in the Phillipines was one example and the Bristish developed the softpoint at the Dum Dum arsenal. Americans filed of the ends of the FMJ bullets to get the same result.
The US settled on the 30-06 which was inspired by the 8mm Mauser. Cases for the 8mm can easily be made out of 30-06 cases, whcih I have done. The original 06 load was 150 grains or so at 2700 fps. I suspect that the American obsession with the 30 cal may be based on very long range advantages where the 30 cal will exceed the 8mm? Either one exceeds the other cartridge developments for some time. The 303 was redesigned witht eh MKII 174 gr bullets which had a hollow nose filled with aluminum or wood whcih could tumble on impact with flesh.
The Hague convention declared soft points inappropriate for "civilized warfare" after their use by the British and US.

DP

[Outpost75]

Russian PTRD-41 14.5x114mm WW2 anti-tank rifle, bolt action.

http://www.militaryfactory.com/small...allarms_id=444

[OS OK]

At the turn of the century the 8mm Mauser (7.92X57) was redone to take a 150 grain bullet at 2880 fps. Due to the effect of hydrostatic shock it was considered more deadly up close and gave longer practical range. Up to that time most military units were using 200 plus grain bullets at around 2100 fps. Some like the Spanish used the 7mm at 175 grains a little. The German development at least contributed to the US development of the 30-06. The 304- Krag and the 303 British laoded at 220 and 215 respectively, esentially the same performance were found wanting at close range when the enemy was close and carrying edged weapons. The Kriss in the Phillipines was one example and the Bristish developed the softpoint at the Dum Dum arsenal. Americans filed of the ends of the FMJ bullets to get the same result.
The US settled on the 30-06 which was inspired by the 8mm Mauser. Cases for the 8mm can easily be made out of 30-06 cases, whcih I have done. The original 06 load was 150 grains or so at 2700 fps. I suspect that the American obsession with the 30 cal may be based on very long range advantages where the 30 cal will exceed the 8mm? Either one exceeds the other cartridge developments for some time. The 303 was redesigned witht eh MKII 174 gr bullets which had a hollow nose filled with aluminum or wood whcih could tumble on impact with flesh.
The Hague convention declared soft points inappropriate for "civilized warfare" after their use by the British and US.

DP

Good post…but…isn't this an 'oxymoron'? …

OS OK

[Hickok]

At the turn of the century the 8mm Mauser (7.92X57) was redone to take a 150 grain bullet at 2880 fps. Due to the effect of hydrostatic shock it was considered more deadly up close and gave longer practical range. Up to that time most military units were using 200 plus grain bullets at around 2100 fps. Some like the Spanish used the 7mm at 175 grains a little. The German development at least contributed to the US development of the 30-06. The 304- Krag and the 303 British laoded at 220 and 215 respectively, esentially the same performance were found wanting at close range when the enemy was close and carrying edged weapons. The Kriss in the Phillipines was one example and the Bristish developed the softpoint at the Dum Dum arsenal. Americans filed of the ends of the FMJ bullets to get the same result.
The US settled on the 30-06 which was inspired by the 8mm Mauser. Cases for the 8mm can easily be made out of 30-06 cases, whcih I have done. The original 06 load was 150 grains or so at 2700 fps. I suspect that the American obsession with the 30 cal may be based on very long range advantages where the 30 cal will exceed the 8mm? Either one exceeds the other cartridge developments for some time. The 303 was redesigned witht eh MKII 174 gr bullets which had a hollow nose filled with aluminum or wood whcih could tumble on impact with flesh.
The Hague convention declared soft points inappropriate for "civilized warfare" after their use by the British and US.

DP

Very true.

Later the Germans went to a 196-198 Spitzer bullet at 2498fps (designed for MG use) to increase long range ballistics over the WWI vintage round that fired a 150 gr Spitzer at close to 2900fps, (2880 fps.)

This is the round, the s.S Patrone, bested most other standard rifle rounds as to range/drift used by nations during WWII.

The s.S Patrone round would stay super sonic to about 1100 yards.

[M-Tecs]

Lahti L-39 20mm Anti Tank Rifle

http://www.dndguns.com/lahti.htm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lahti_L-39