Older Lee Loader Charge Data

[Orin]

Hello,

I am new to castboolits and I'm excited about getting into cast bullets and reloading. I have a quick question about using older Lee Loaders. I've searched through the messages and cannot find one on this topic. I have several Lee Loaders from the 1960's-70's, which belonged to my father (photo attached). I have used them in the past for .38 Special/.44 Special, but it's been at least 30 years since I've done so. I recently broke out some of these old loaders and in looking at the charge data on the accompanying cards I see load data for some powders that might not exist any longer (Nobel Pistol No.2&3, Hodgson HP38, WIN.231, Hercules Bullseye, etc.). Does Lee have updated charge tables for these loaders which shows data for current powders on the market?

Then other question I have is about the plastic scoops from these older kits. The ones I have are labeled differently (I think) from ones from newer kits. Likewise, I have a Lee Universal Scoop kit containing probably 20 different sized scoops. Again, this piece is probably 35 years old. Is there anything I should be aware of when using scoops from older kits? I will be using a mechanical powder scale along with these Lee Loaders just to double check the powder loads but I'm just curious about the above.

Thank you,
Orin

[Mk42gunner]

First of all, welcome aboard.

I recommend getting a current loading manual, some data from days gone by is iffy at best.

With the exception of the Nobel powders, and maybe Trap 100 (I haven't checked on that in a long time), the powders on your chart are still available. Hercules was sold to Alliant, but Bullseye and Unique are still in the line. HP38 and W231 are now the same powder.

The current Lee powder dippers are yellow and calibrated in cc's. The older red ones, which I am guessing is what you have, were calibrated in cubic inches. I think there was also a series that had arbitrary numbers.

Congratulations on the idea of using a scale to check charges instead of blindly trusting that the dipper was made right, always best to verify.

While I haven't loaded any rifle or handgun rounds with a Lee Loader, I have done a lot of .410 and 20 gauge when I was a kid in the seventies.

Robert

[smkummer]

Lee switched to the "newer" yellow dippers in the late 70's I believe. Like most lee data, that is very conservative. It is essentially mild target data. 231 first came out in the mid-70's replacing 230. So that should date your kit as again in the late 70's maybe early 80's is when the yellow dippers came out with more options or dippers. If it were myself, and you wanted to get by the cheapest you can, I would get the lee economy scale for $20 and us a empty case such as a 32 auto, 380 or others and trim the case to put the charge you want to use. The solder or twist a stiff wire on it for a handle. For example, a standard pressure charge of unique with lead 158 grain bullets can be close to about 5 grains. And for what its is worth, lead bullets give higher velocities and lower pressures in 38 special.

And for what its worth, use the kit to load your first loaded ammo to prove you can do it. Then buy a press with carbide dies and never look back. Sell the kit to the nest newbie or trade for a good bottle of booze.

[Orin]

Thanks to both of you for your very helpful responses. I think I may contact Lee and see about getting replacement dippers and, of course, a current reloading manual. I do have a tons of reloading gear, dies, presses, bullet molds, etc., but it's all at least 35-40 years old or more and boxed up and I have to sort it all out. It was my dad's stuff. I do have a Lee Hand Press as well as several of these vintage Lee Loaders. Due to space constrictions I will probably stick with this current setup until I can figure out a bench setup.

One of the shockers I just discovered are the shipping and hazmat fees on powder. I know I can obtain powder locally so I will go that route. Again, I appreciate your advice.

Orin

[Le Loup Solitaire]

Somewhere along the line you will need and/or acquire a scale and you will be able to make your own dippers out of used cartridge cases, copper wire, a file and a little solder. It isn't hard to do with the input from a good loading manual. At one point in time I made a set of dippers and they worked well until I could afford to upgrade things. Dippers aren't the fastest way to work, but they are accurate and safe. A funnel helps things along. LLS

[Bmi48219]

I have a set of Lee Dippers for the late 60's. Black and numbered ( not cc,'s). I use them with a trickled & powder scale to work up new test loads, 5 or 10 per charge weight, at a time. A lot easier than readjusting my powder measure. The dippers are surprisingly accurate once you get the hang of it. Lee loader kits have been around a long time and they keep making & selling them for a reason. They work. I reload with Lee loaders & shoot a couple hundred rounds a week. Sure a press would be faster, but who really cares. When we were kids we sat on the concrete basement floor whacking away at the old Lee loaders with dad for hours on end. A lot of good stories, laughs and lessons learned in the process. Maybe that's why I keep using them. A lot of guys on this forum shoot every day and reload thousands of rounds a month. God love em, that's great. For those of us who don't, the need for all kinds of reloading equipment isn't so important. Lee Loaders do the trick without taking up a lot of space OR a major capital investment.
I think it's safe to say 99% of the forum readers are here because they enjoy shooting. Reloading, by whatever process, is a means to that end. Plus, knowing you just put 5 in the ten ring offhand using rounds you put together using a contraption your dad paid ten bucks for fifty years ago can really make your day.

[C.F.Plinker]

This chart is for the newer dippers graduated in cc's.

http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi-data...ct/Dippers.pdf

[Orin]

Thanks again for your helpful comments. I went through more of my dad's boxes in storage this weekend and found a few more Lee Loaders, as well as that universal dipper kit. I have discovered that I now have Lee Loaders in .38 Special, .357mag, 9mm, .38 Super, .41 Mag, .44 Special, .44 Mag, .45 ACP, .45 Auto Rim, .45 Colt, .250 Savage, .270 Win ,.30-30 Win, .30-40 Krag, & .30-06. I'm excited, but I also have dies for each so my Lee Hand Press may be used, also. But I will order the updated dipper kit from Lee.
Thanks again.