Mini lathe mini mill any one

[JSH]

I got the itch. So am looking hard at the grizzly GO765. I think it will do fine for lube sizer dies and some other small parts.
I would like the GO768, but it would kill my budget for tooling and accessories.
Jeff

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

Get the largest machine you can afford/handle because there will be a time you want/need a larger machine. Oh yeah, the machines are the cheap part LOL!

I see my lathe as an indispensable tool.

[Bonz]

Oh yeah, the machines are the cheap part LOL !

Really thinking hard about a lathe because I can think of a million things that I could make if I had a lathe. But I keep hearing the same thing that the initial purchase of the lathe is the least expensive part of the purchase, the items that you buy later is was cost the most.

What additional items are you talking about ?

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

The expensive part is the tooling.

With reloading there are lots of extra accessories that make the job easier/faster. Same goes with machining.


Starting out on a lathe I would use HSS bits and learn to grind them. This is an invaluable skill, IMHO. Once you have mastered grinding different cutting tools (ie, turning, boring, threading, etc) then consider getting some carbide cutters. Learning the "ins" and "outs" of both types of cutters is important too.


Some other cutting tools would include drills, reamers, counterbores, chamfer cutters.


Then when you throw a mill into the mix, there are even more tools that you would need for mill.


Don't let this scare you though. Just like reloading, you can reload with basic tooling. Same goes for machining. You will be able to make a lot of items with basic tooling. Some you may already have (ie, drills). HSS blank bits are cheap. I have purchased tooling as I go and I come across jobs that require special tooling. I just order it. Sooooo, get off the fence and get yourself a lathe LOL!

[JSH]

A place to put a full size one is the major problem.
I have access to four lathes that vary in size. Two are gun smithing lathes, one large and a shop sized one. Two of these folks know their stuff. Convince is not a t the top of the list any any of those. Hour round trip drive for the most part to any of them.

Bonz, it is all tooling. I had a fair bunch years ago that I gave away. Even if I had kept all of it, it was to large to fit on the bench lathes without some work.

You have to walk, before you can run so to speak. So I am trying to nail down what the major basics would be for most jobs. I do want a 4 jaw chuck, once again it is not a have have for now.
Some of the package deals are pretty good. Then I also need a good set of bits. The list gets longer and longer. Once again the KISS theory needs to be followed. The tool rest that comes with it are very useable, yet there are better ways to skin a cat and both can and do work quite well.
It has been a fair bit since I last fooled with a lathe, worked in a shop that used theirs weekly. "Knows enough to be dangerous" applies here, but I think with some usage it will come back to me OK.
Jeff

[oldred]

The 4 jaw chuck is a necessity really and is far more useful than the 3 jaw. Also while I agree with the HSS tooling I would like to add that if you check on Ebay you can get REAL quality HSS at a decent price and not have settle for the Chinese K—rap! Chinese HSS is a bad joke and compared to something such as Cleveland Mo—Max it's like night and day, the point being that while you may have to settle for an import lathe the cost of good tooling can easily exceed the lathe itself and cheapo substitutes will cost even more in the long run in both money and frustration. I am not trying to be an import snob and I buy lots of import stuff where it works but tooling for lathes and mills is not the place to save money.

Good tooling is not cheap but cheap tooling is not good!

[big bore 99]

I've been a tool maker for the last 50 yrs and had my own small shop for 25 of them. I pulled the plug and closed it up and sold everything. I had larger lathes, Bridgeports and a surface grinder. I had a couple small lathes and a Benchmaster table mill. The smaller equipment was more or less a novelty. When first starting out, it's bewildering trying to figure out what else you need. I would start out with a full set of drill bits and an assortment of end mill cutters and what you may need for a job. It's more fun not having to turn a buck right away like I was. I strongly suggest trying to make a lot of the smaller things. I had a book titled "Toolmaking 1909" I think was the title. I made a lot of my own odd taps, boring bars, form cutters, work holding fixtures, etc. That will give you a working knowledge of the trade.

[Bonz]

Some great responses, thanks. I haven't used a lathe since 1973 but the metal shop teacher said that I had the skill and trusted me with making some engine parts for his brothers race car. Once I get started, I'm guessing that someone charging $200 to make a push thru die and base punch that can reduce brass by 0.02" will probably make more sense. Right now, the idea sounds very easy to do.

[rondog]

Some great responses, thanks. I haven't used a lathe since 1973 but the metal shop teacher said that I had the skill and trusted me with making some engine parts for his brothers race car. Once I get started, I'm guessing that someone charging $200 to make a push thru die and base punch that can reduce brass by 0.02" will probably make more sense. Right now, the idea sounds very easy to do.

Making things isn't the hard or expensive part, it's the machines and the tooling, and the necessary space, and electrical power, and proper setup, etc. Bits and cutters are expensive, and lathes and mills allows you to break those tools with great gusto. And boring, turning, facing and threading bars that use replaceable inserts are great, but expensive, and the inserts aren't cheap either. Not to mention the huge variety of them.

Making things is awesome, great if you can afford to do it a lot and have the skills/experience to NOT break things. For most of us, it's cheaper in the long run to just buy what you need already made, or hire it done. I really miss having access to machine shops, but not enough to go to the huge expenses to set myself up.

[dverna]

If money is tight, forego the mill and get a good lathe and tooling

[jmorris]

I have always found the best deals on used equipment. Unlike electronics, old equipment is often better than new and you get the "extras" that costs more than the machine as well.

I have bought old bridgeports for less than what the phase converters, collets, vice, chucks, rotary table and other tooling they came with would have cost by themselves. I would take one bridgeport over a dozen table top "china" mills.

[HollowPoint]

I started out with a mini mill and mini lathe that I bought from Harbor Freight. They were like toys compared to what I use now but I learned alot from using them. You will eventually want to upgrade but don't be in a hurry to do so. The tooling for the mini mill/lathe is not as expensive as it is for larger machines so if you break some tools, chalk it up to experience.

I still own my mini mill. I use it as my drill press. I have since upgraded lathes twice. I went from the mini to a 9x19 to a 12x36 gunsmithing lathe. There's no telling how many of the more expensive cutting tools I may have ruined if I had not learned on the minis. I went straight from the mini mill to a CNC hobby mill that I've had for a few years now.

For the kind of project I use them for I'm more than happy with what I got and how I got there. It's always a dream come true when you can afford the best machines right from the start but, not everyone can do that.

HollowPoint

[marvelshooter]

My two cents is to stay far away from the Chinese 7x12 and 7x14 mini lathes no matter what name is on them. You would be much better served with an old South Bend 9" or something similar. If you are patient you can get one for about the same money as the Chinese lathe and often get some tooling with it.

[country gent]

Tooling for the lathe depends on what you want need to do. Simple turning and light boreing can be done with a lantern tool post and a left right straight and cuttoff tool holder and square HSS opr cemented carbide tools. A bench grinder with appropriate wheels for sharpening tools ( If you run both carbide and HSS 2 bench grinders saves mounting and remounting wheels and makes them last alot longer) Drill chuck, live center, Reamer float, and die holder for the tail stock. 3 jaw, 4 jaw collets, dead center and face plate for the head stock. If wantingto do long work or barrels 2 4 jaws and a mount for it on the back of the headstock spindle so both ends of the barrel can be zeroed and held. Then you get into gages measuring tools taps dies drill reamers. Other tooling could be taper attachments mandrels digital read outs 6 jaw chucks ( very good for thin walled work) Lathe dogs. Ounce you have the lathe alot of the tooling can be made on it for it but is time consuming.

[JSH]

I am not so much looking at a mill as I am a lathe. I have access to a couple of mills along with the lathes. Once again it is about the convenience. To drive over there and back, an hour on the road to do ten to fifteen minutes work gets old quick and burns a lot of day light.

The bench top lathes are over and above what they were several years back. The new ones are leaps and bounds ahead of those.
If I was going to make a living or supplement my income, and use this several hours every day, yes I would buck up and spend the time and money on an upper quality lathe. My tool and die maker buddy is going with me to look these over and help me get mine squared up before I tackle anything of importance.
The ways are not hardened on most of these. So cleanliness and good lube is a must. I did communicate with one gent that was a retired machinest. He bought on of the HF lathes, as he needed some parts and built them cheaper than he could buy them at the time. He mentioned that they are like guns, the all have their quirks. You have to find them and work with them. He just checked his little lathe over after having not done that for several years. It was the same as he had set it up after fifteen or so years. He mentioned his use was maybe an average of one to two times a month and it showed no measurable wear.
I darn sure am not going to learn any younger,lol

[BwBrown]

While it is technically possible to do so, it is extremely expensive - I have never heard anyone say, "I wish I had bought a smaller lathe."
I on the other hand say daily, "If I had 2" more swing over the bed..." or "If only the through bore were 1/2" larger."
You can do a lot of stuff on those mini lathes and mills. But you can do most anything you want on a larger unit.
Think ahead, and buy as much as the budget will allow. Then the learning begins! And if possible find a friend, neighbor, mentor. They are priceless!
Good luck.

[rbuck351]

I have a 7x14HF mini lathe and am very happy with it. Don't bother with carbide insert tools for these. It doesn't have the power to run them properly. I have made a bunch of dies for my Lyman and Star sizers and my Swag O Matic. Also made a bunch of GC makers. Do get an American made drill set. The Chinese ones are not straight and are not as good of steel. I am having good luck with import HSS tool bits from Enco at about a dollar each. You will find threading on these lathes to be a challenge as they only go down to about 60/80 rpm. Little Machine Shop has lots of tooling for these and the prices are not bad. The have a variety of chucks and chuck mounting plates, quick change tool holders and such. A bigger lathe will do more of course and a quick change gear box would be nice but if you don't have the room you make do with what you have. I have had mine for several years and it has paid for it self many times over.

[HollowPoint]

When I bought my mini mill and lathe, they came with many of the items listed above as stuff you'd have to buy separately. All I had to buy was cutting tools. I already had measuring tools so that was covered.

I've mentioned this before in other posts of this type, I barreled my first rifle using the Grizzly 9x19 lathe I had upgraded to from the mini lathe. It seems that chinese machines carry with them an inherent stigma of inaccuracy and cheapness that will never be shaken; even though this is no longer the case.

I once watch a program of a famous concert violinist playing a stratavarious violin. As a musician he was very talented. He then took an off the shelf mass produced violin and proceeded to make it sound just as good as the rare master-piece stratavarious violin.

My point is, if you've learned your lessons on the smaller machines and you know what you're doing, if you take your time you can get what many call "Chinese-Junk" to turn out some incredible finished products.

Don't let the Dream-Killers kill your dreams.

HollowPoint

[Whiterabbit]

I got the itch. So am looking hard at the grizzly GO765. I think it will do fine for lube sizer dies and some other small parts.
I would like the GO768, but it would kill my budget for tooling and accessories.
Jeff

If money is tight, forego the mill and get a good lathe and tooling

Hi Jeff,

I'm going with dverna and I will go even farther. IMO it's better to have one good machine and NO tooling, than a medium machine plus tooling or two junk machines fully accesorized. The reason being, you can slowly aquire tooling over time, per job.

So I go one step further than dverna. If money is REALLY tight, get a machine you like with a couple pcs of HSS bar, and slowly over time build up your tooling.


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(it took me 2-3 years to buy even my QCTP. I can't live without it now, but still, I found a way to for years. Three years from now, I'll install the scales for a DRO and talk about how I couldn;t live without them.....)

[country gent]

I disagree with the big machine can do it all. At work we had a lathe that would swing 28" over the carriage and a 10 ft between centers. Doing small work in it was a real issue due to speed ranges, weight of everything, and the fact the big chuck didnt always close down small enough. Just cranking the carriage around was a pain. Some of us had a cable made up to wrap arounf the tail stock and pull it forward easier. Big machines are heavier and harder to work with, the bigger tooling dosnt always fit where its needed to be. Same with mills big mills tooling is heavy a big vise is a pain if you need a chainfall or cherrypicker every time you want to take it on or off. Spindle speeds may be to slow for smaller end mills and cutters.