Hello all. I processed 350 lbs of wheel weights over the weekend and made a brief set of videos of it, for anyone contemplating the task and wanting to see how it's done. This is the way I do it, but feel free to comment if you see any information you think is wrong.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...9hih0Wmxwo3dM2
I always sort my WW and remove all no lead weights before smelting. No zinc contamination risk and much less fuel burned heating steel weights, especially with the high ratios of steel nowadays.
I like the idea of using a large ladle to pour into ingot molds.
I have a lid for my pots I think it reduces melt time by nearly 1/2.
I have large bottom pour pot I made but the valve seat can get clogged with clips and will not shut off.
You need to sort zinc and steel wheel weights out before rendering the wheel weights down.
A thermometer or PID (probe for temp only) is necessary now that there's so many zinc wheel weights in the buckets. Keep the melt temperature below 725*F. Zinc melts at about 780*F.
You lost a lot of lead when you removed the clips. I throw a few handfuls of sawdust on the top and touch it off with a match. The flame burns off any gasses. The clips seem to repel the lead and come out almost clean but also with the charcoal like dust from the sawdust. This will reduce and retain any tin or antimony that's on the surface, too. After the initial sawdust and scooping out the clips, I'll do it again. Then follow up with a wax. This assures all the tin and antimony goes back into the melt. Be careful using Magnaflux, it sucks in moisture from the air. Sawdust is wet, too. Don't stir the moisture under the surface, yet. Toss it on top and let it sit for awhile to get rid of any moisture.
A longer handle on your spoon and ladle would help to keep your hands and arms away from the heat more. A little bend in the ladle handle would help, too. A #3 Rowell ladle is perfect for both jobs.
More ingot molds would speed things up a lot for you. Keep them close to the pot and well supported.
Be sure to wear all your safety stuff. No nylon or any synthetic clothing. Long sleeve shirt, long pants, durable shoes, hat with a brim, safety glasses or face shield, long cuffed leather welders gloves and maybe an apron. Keep upwind of the fumes. Wash up good before eating, drinking or smoking. Never use utensils that you used for lead for food again. Keep children and pets well away from the work area.
Last edited by Yodogsandman; 04-03-2016 at 01:58 PM.
Nice job. Thanks!
Interesting comments folks. Thanks. As I expected, there are slightly different approaches.
As the wheel weights I get are free, I'm not terribly worried about a little wasted lead.
I'd also say that it's quite easy to keep the pot at a minimum temperature to keep below the zinc melting point. The zinc ones separate out fine, making that extra work unnecessary (to me anyway). The last time I did this, I didn't even separate-out the stick-on weights and my alloy turned out very good for shooting and casting, so I was being real picky (for me!), just by separating the stickies this time.
As an aside, I wound up with about 125 ingots from the clip-on wheel weights and 64 ingots from the stick-on type (to give some idea of the proportions of each in my batch). While sorting through the clip-ons from the stickies, I was amused to find one pail had a very high proportion of stickies compared to the other two. I suspect that the tire technician (perhaps formerly employed an no longer at the shop) may have been purposely discarding stickies in one pail and clip-ons in another, until someone else took over his job.
ALWAYS.......sort WW's B4 re-melting. No ways around it. Never rely on melt temps because it is very difficult to control that temp in a re-melting pot situation.
It is time-comsuming to sort, but if you choose to rely on FREE stuff, you need to pay the piper. I gave up on WW's 2 years ago when they turned 50% or higher to Zn and Fe content. I buy all my alloys pure and mix to what I need......9-12 Bhn. I won't even haul them home any longer. I got bigger fish to fry.
And keep all different WW's, Pb, and alloys separate. No "big batch" melts. That way you can easily mix and CHANGE your alloy in the future. Also, keep linotype in it's native format..."lines-o-type"...to prove it is real lino. Anything can be poured by anyone into ingots and marked "lino".
Have fun making boolits with your new stash.
banger
Thanks Banger. I'm still not going to pre-sort for zinc. No way!The way I look at it, end results are king and if a good, shootable, castable alloy is obtained, there's not a real-world problem (in my case) in need of fixing. I think I had about 20% (at most) zinc wheel weights in my batch. At the price I pay (which is zero), that's not a problem at all.
By the way, here's the number of ingots I wound up with from the 350 lbs of raw material:
Last edited by Don L; 04-03-2016 at 04:09 PM.
Have you actually cast and shot anything from that batch yet????? Having a pile of metal is one thing. Having a pile of good reliable usable alloy is another.
If you are gettign 20% Zn (!!!!!) content you really need to consider in investing in a bunch of Sn to lower the surface tension for casting good boolits. And 20% will lighten your boolits considerably, so you will probably have to compensate for all your powder loads.
Sorting is still the best. But do what you feel is best for your needs. I prefer pure Pb/Sn/Sb alloys with just a touch of Cu sometimes in there for toughness. No Zn 'round these parts, pardner!
Have fun casting.
bangerjim
Wow. I don't know if you have reading problems or what the problem is Bangerjim.Originally Posted by bangerjim
Have I shot any? Yes, I have. I've been casting bullets using this technique since the late 1970's but I suppose, it's the length of time you're a member of Castboolits that is the important criteria here. Sorry for being so impolite as to disagree with you. How long have you been casting?
Now, being the expert you are and me the newbie, can you grasp the fact that the zinc wheel weights have not been melting? They float to the surface and get skimmed off intact, like the metal clips.
So when I say (and read this carefully) that I am getting 20% zinc wheel weights in each batch of free wheel weights, that does not mean I am getting 20% zinc in the melt. The zinc ones stay unmelted, float to the surface and are skimmed off, along with the metal clips. Let the melt do the sorting for you.
Last edited by Don L; 04-03-2016 at 08:09 PM.
Oh, I see. If I post something, I must agree with others' differences in technique or else I am wasting your time.
Hey, all I said was "This is the way I do it, but feel free to comment if you see any information you think is wrong." I don't read anywhere where I said I'm asking to be taught; I'm just sharing my process in the hopes it might be helpful to someone else (because it's worked for me for 45 years).
Sure, we have an honest disagreement on the subject of sorting out all zinc wheel weights. That should be okay and I found some of the comments quite informative. I don't necessarily have to agree with you to respect you (maybe you should try that sometime).
In case anyone's getting led astray by the exaggerated charge that I'm ending up with 20% zinc in my alloy because of the way I'm doing things, I refer to the Third Edition of the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook (shown below).
There is no way - and I repeat, no way - you will get more than 2% zinc under casting conditions, no matter how hard you try (unless you cast at 1,468 degrees). This should be pointed out, I think.
Kind of new here and not meaning to be disrespectful.
Don L, It used to be fine to throw everything in the pot and make ingots. Now, there's just too much zinc and other stuff in the buckets of WW. I'm sure that you can see the difference if you've been doing it for 45 years. If you can dissolve 2% zinc into your molten lead, any more will show up as a metal-like oatmeal on the surface. Just because Lyman says you can do it doesn't mean you should. That's not a very good boolit alloy for any boolit casting. It might work for plinking ammo if you have low expectations and that's what makes you happy. I'd just use it up by casting big salt water fishing weights with it, myself. I do hope that you didn't get any zinc in your ingots.
I had 4 buckets of WW given to me a few weeks ago. By my best guess, only 10% is lead and only half that is clip on wheel weights. That's going to be the new reality of using WWs, I'm afraid. Might wait till retirement to segregate them!
Good job Don L.
I did see your buckets had a HH on them? Only some would know that "our" WW have a lot less scrap zinc and steel than the "other" WW do. The last 6 pails I sorted I ended up with 3 1/2 COWW, 1 1/2 SOWW and most of a bucket steel, zinc and scrap. I also have been smelting for a while and now I sort before smelting.
I also re-melt COWW and pure to alloy. Mine are 30/70 to have pistol ingots ready to go.
unless you have tin in the alloy.
tin loves zinc, it will migrate to zinc away from lead in the same alloy.
then you can have a more soluble lead-zinc alloy.
without the tin 3 or more percent zinc is alloyable in plain lead without even trying.
you can also get copper into your alloy by using a higher tin content.
weird how alloy's work ain't it.
I don't understand why you'd need to turn the heat up double the melt point of zinc to get it to stay in solution, you don't have to do that with antimony and it'll go up near the 19-20% area without an issue.
I'm not sure, but you may have misread my last post. I mentioned the high temperature (+1,400 degrees) needed to totally dissolve zinc into the alloy, but did not mean that I use that high temperature. As you know, the amount of zinc that can dissolve into the alloy is dependent on temperature and that is an important factor.
Which also means that - even if you create your alloy at a higher temperature and end up dissolving a little more than 2% zinc - once you begin casting at your more controlled temperature (I cast at around 750 degrees), that extra zinc will separate out to the top of the melt anyway and not go into any bullets (unless you completely drain the pot, which you'll never do) because only a certain percentage can be a part of the mix for any given temperature.
Last edited by Don L; 04-03-2016 at 11:48 PM.
Heh, heh. You noticed that huh? When I asked the owner of the Fountain Tire in High Level, he said I could have them all, so long as I bring my own buckets, so off to Home Hardware I go and come back with 5 pails!
When I'm up in northern Alberta with my wife to visit her family, I can hit tire stores in the small towns. Very few people wanting scrap wheel weights there so, when I ask, they're almost sure to just give 'em to me (I think they're glad I'm taking them off their hands!)
Actually, I can get lots for free right here in Edmonton too, but maybe it gives me sense of accomplishment this way.
There are a LOT of people on high horses on this site. You've tickled a few. You'll probably tickle some more. They don't like being tickled.
The truth don't sit well with some. They don't seem to like frankness either. Sugarcoating works well.
Come on guys.... All posts and methodology, if it works for you, is a working solution..... (if you do it different..that's OK too!!)
Don L has GREAT supplier of WW's and if keeping the pot temp low works for him in his smelt pot...it works for me!
Looks like his ingot stash is pretty nifty and, well, 'his time spent smelting is...well... his time spent smelting'!!
I appreciate Don L's post and pics UTUBE movie...was fun to watch...
I find Don, when smelting,,,i get a bit 'prettier' ingots if I start with a few scoops of sawdust in the bottom of the pot...the bring on the smelt material... I do it 'low and slow' to help cook off any moisture...stir well and I do the 'sawdust' trick three time at least and never ever ADD more smelt material to a hot molten smelt pot.... And I always wear safety glasses and leather gloves and apron....boots too!!
Keep up the good work buddy!!!
Nose Dive
Cheap, Fast, Good. Kindly pick two.
Thanks Nose Dive (and Scottfire 1957 too). Despite some of the antics, many of the posts have been useful and thought-provoking to read - even if only to make me go back to the books and check things again.
Being on the internet, we're quite widely dispersed geographically, so assumptions about alloy availability and things like that can not be assumed. I like your suggestion about the sawdust in the bottom of the pot before starting. I might have to try that next time.
Oh, and here's a shot of the ingots I produced over the weekend (I should put it in a video, just to make a certain someone's hair start on fire
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