Possible issue with Lee Auto drum

[romukom]

New here, I have been lurking for awhile but I feel that this really important to let everyone know to keep an eye of this possible problem for those who have the Lee Auto Drum powder measure. (See Picture).




There have been report that the Auto drum wobbles as the press reaches its full stroke. Mine is not different. The accuracy and consistency was not affected.
However earlier today, I started have less powder thrown. I thought that my expander/ powder through die got loose and started to back out but it was not. I checked everything else and were in correct working order.

As I check everything and cycling the powder measure, I saw that the drum was not fully cycling (about half way). After close look I saw that one of tab was slipping off from the knurl nut causing the drum not to fully cycle. Also, the square block was not fully reaching the top of the slot at full stroke. Luckily I found this issue as I was trying to set a charge and not reloading.

The reason, loose tolerances and soft metal that the drum is made of. The tabs start to flex and stretch; hence the powder measure’s wobble when it cycle. I took a plier and squeeze back the tabs. That alone restored Auto Drum range of movement.

The wobble still there and I knew that eventually will make tabs spread again. So I put a piece of 1/8” zip tie in the opposite tab. Now I don’t have the wobble issue and apparently all the forces are inline with the die.

I am not sure if the zip tie will fix it long term. My next option would be a worm gear hose clamp to permanently hold the tabs in place.
I hope this help if you are having issues.
Thanks.

[tazman]

Thanks for posting. It's always good to find out about possible problems.

[flashhole]

I fabricated and inserted a small bushing/spacer in line with the plunger. Full rotation of the drum and locked everything up nice and tight. Very repeatable and accurate charges.

[romukom]

That is interesting. I have noticed the slop withe the plunger. So far mine AD drops within +- .1 grains. Does your has the issue I posted?
I will contact Lee as well.

[claude]

romukom,

what is the estimate of the round count before you experienced the failure?

[opos]

I've loaded about 1000 rounds (mixed 45 Colt and 45 acp) with mine and still dead on...no issues at all...using Trail Boss in the 45Colt and W231 in the 45 acp. I did have one little issue in that the rubber o ring that fits on the riser "jumped off" and things would not tighten up...I found and replaced the o ring and all has been well since....I also removed the little "cocking arm" that set's up a charge and prevents a double charge if using a progressive as on the turret having to cock the measure each time manually is a pain in the backside...I love my measure but will continue to watch...my only issue at all was misplacing the o ring..could that be an issue here?

[romukom]

romukom,

what is the estimate of the round count before you experienced the failure?

I have loaded closed to 1500 rounds both .45 ACP and 9mm. Probably an additional 500 more cycles while setting things up. So, about 2000 cycles. I have not used the large drum.

I've loaded about 1000 rounds (mixed 45 Colt and 45 acp) with mine and still dead on...no issues at all...using Trail Boss in the 45Colt and W231 in the 45 acp. I did have one little issue in that the rubber o ring that fits on the riser "jumped off" and things would not tighten up...I found and replaced the o ring and all has been well since....I also removed the little "cocking arm" that set's up a charge and prevents a double charge if using a progressive as on the turret having to cock the measure each time manually is a pain in the backside...I love my measure but will continue to watch...my only issue at all was misplacing the o ring..could that be an issue here?

So far the O ring is fine on the assembly. The only O ring that tends to walk off from me is the one from the extender. The issue are the tabs that holds the swivel/knurl nut. With all the wobbles the tabs started to expand outward causing a partial slip off. So as a result a partial movement of the drum.
To be clear, I never over adjusted my expanding die; just barely enough flaring to seat the bullet. By the time the press is at full stroke, the drum and the square block are in the max movement range.

I already submitted a e-ticket to Lee for them to be aware of the issue.

[flashhole]

"That is interesting. I have noticed the slop withe the plunger. So far mine AD drops within +- .1 grains. Does your has the issue I posted?
I will contact Lee as well."

I did, in a way, experience what you experienced regarding the drum not rotating as much as it needed to.

I made the spacer because I was not getting full rotation with my 45-70 Powder Through Expander Die. I went round and round with the folks at Lee and they insisted there was no problem and even sent me a replacement part. Same problem with both factory parts. I even sent pictures with diagrams comparing the parts that worked and the part(s) that didn't and you could clearly see the problem.

The drum needs to rotate about 120 degrees to fill the powder chamber and drop the powder down the tube. I was only getting about 90 degrees rotation with the 45-70 Powder Through Die. The only other Powder Through Expander Die I have is for the 40 S&W and it does not exhibit this problem. The spacer solved the problem nicely.

I made a second spacer a bit shorter because I bought two Auto Drums and dedicated one to the small drum and one to the large drum. I use the long and short rifle dies that came both dies in the same kit and in addition to the two cartridges listed above I load 221 Fireball, 223 Rem, 25-06 and 7mm RM with the Auto Drum.

I also have the Lee Classic Powder Measure. The brass drum in the Classic fits perfectly in the Auto Drum. I notice Factory Sales has the brass drum available for purchase separately. I may pick one up and use it on the larger rifle cartridges as the micrometer adjust is very repeatable and easy to use.

To date, with the Auto Drum, I have only loaded about 1000 rounds total for all my guns.

[claude]

Thank you OP

[romukom]

That is interesting. In my case as soon as the expander (both .45 and 9mm ) dies goes into the case, the drum starts to rotate. There are still some slop in the pinion rack.

[opos]

I may be wrong but it seems to me there was some comment in the Lee Literature or help videos about special "handling" required if rifle cartridges were being loaded..my comments before were only about handgun loading and I have never used the larger charging drum...I only use the smaller disc....wondering if there is something about the larger set up and loading for rifles? Wish my old mind would be able to reacall what I read or saw that commented on rifle charging.

Edit: I just went to you tube and found this video..don't know if it has any bearing on any of this but it's what I was thinking of and the video seems to deal with the area that is in question..

https://youtu.be/rCKUqNMVf6Y

[kryogen]

Why do we always need to "fix" new lee equipment, or work around the flaws?

[opos]

Probably the same reason new expensive cars get recalled all the time.

[jetinteriorguy]

"That is interesting. I have noticed the slop withe the plunger. So far mine AD drops within +- .1 grains. Does your has the issue I posted?
I will contact Lee as well."

I did, in a way, experience what you experienced regarding the drum not rotating as much as it needed to.

I made the spacer because I was not getting full rotation with my 45-70 Powder Through Expander Die. I went round and round with the folks at Lee and they insisted there was no problem and even sent me a replacement part. Same problem with both factory parts. I even sent pictures with diagrams comparing the parts that worked and the part(s) that didn't and you could clearly see the problem.

The drum needs to rotate about 120 degrees to fill the powder chamber and drop the powder down the tube. I was only getting about 90 degrees rotation with the 45-70 Powder Through Die. The only other Powder Through Expander Die I have is for the 40 S&W and it does not exhibit this problem. The spacer solved the problem nicely.

I made a second spacer a bit shorter because I bought two Auto Drums and dedicated one to the small drum and one to the large drum. I use the long and short rifle dies that came both dies in the same kit and in addition to the two cartridges listed above I load 221 Fireball, 223 Rem, 25-06 and 7mm RM with the Auto Drum.

I also have the Lee Classic Powder Measure. The brass drum in the Classic fits perfectly in the Auto Drum. I notice Factory Sales has the brass drum available for purchase separately. I may pick one up and use it on the larger rifle cartridges as the micrometer adjust is very repeatable and easy to use.

To date, with the Auto Drum, I have only loaded about 1000 rounds total for all my guns.

I was thinking of doing this as well, what are the dimensions of your spacer?

[flashhole]

I fit the outside dimension of the spacer to the inside dimension of the sliding sleeve in the die that captures it. The inside dimension was matched to the ID of the powder through ram on the powder measure. It effect it was just an extension of the ram/drip tube on the powder measure. The one I made for the 45-70 was .120" long. The second one used on the standard rifle die and the 40 S&W was .100".

[jetinteriorguy]

Thanks. I'll have to give this a try.

[romukom]

FYI,
Lee and I are working to verify few things before reaching to a resolution/conclusion.

[romukom]

Just a quick update. Lee asked me to perform a test to verify that the movement of the “plastic square” is moving though it range. I was asked to test the Auto Drum (AD) with and without the riser/extension. So with a sized case, the “plastic square started to move as soon as the expander made contact with the case. When the lever was at it full stroke, the square stopped about 1/16” from the AD metal body. This indicates that the expander die is properly set and not stressing the AD. I have the same result without the riser.
So, here is the response:

"We have changed the diameter of the black knurled adapter bolt to reduce the clearance as you
accomplished with the zip tie.

It is normal for the body to move during actuation as the connecting rod
pushes off the center line of the device. The only load on the retaining
ears is load from the plastic connecting rod in action and the heavy
return spring when at rest. I don't think you will have any further
problems."

So far is working as intended.
As for the spacer, I don’t think is related with my reported issue. I only have 9mm and .45 ACP dies. So both expander are working/actuating the drum as it should.

[opos]

Just a quick update. Lee asked me to perform a test to verify that the movement of the “plastic square” is moving though it range. I was asked to test the Auto Drum (AD) with and without the riser/extension. So with a sized case, the “plastic square started to move as soon as the expander made contact with the case. When the lever was at it full stroke, the square stopped about 1/16” from the AD metal body. This indicates that the expander die is properly set and not stressing the AD. I have the same result without the riser.
So, here is the response:

"We have changed the diameter of the black knurled adapter bolt to reduce the clearance as you
accomplished with the zip tie.

It is normal for the body to move during actuation as the connecting rod
pushes off the center line of the device. The only load on the retaining
ears is load from the plastic connecting rod in action and the heavy
return spring when at rest. I don't think you will have any further
problems."

So far is working as intended.
As for the spacer, I don’t think is related with my reported issue. I only have 9mm and .45 ACP dies. So both expander are working/actuating the drum as it should.

Did Lee indicate that there was or was not a potential problem with units that have been out and in use for a while? I have one of the first ones out and no problems at all but hate to have a 'ticking bomb" if there is a wear or other issue...are they changing things or is your case independent?..thanks

[romukom]

Per their response it seems that they have made the change. I think is a combination of the smaller diameter of the knurled nut and the normal movement of the body that wore the tab. I have no indication that I will get an updated part.