Why People Give Up On Casting

[ArrowJ]

Outside of lead accidents, I may have a runner in the race for worst beginning to casting ever.

I got my Lee 20 lb bottom pour in the mail today. It says to keep it around 7 and aim for 650 degrees, but I disregarded that having advice from CB to go a little higher for my Lee mold. Of course setting it at 7 gave me well over 800°, and I did not get it to settle at 750° until I put it on 4.

I spent an hour or so trying to get the hang of it with a net of zero bullets. At that point I moved to another location and moved the guide plate out of the way. Wrinkled bullets, round edges, unfilled cavities, sticky mold, irritations with the Lee pot, basically everything that can go wrong except frosted bullets.

Long story short, after 3 ½ hours I had 40 bullets I decided to keep out of charity. These had an average weight of around 127 gr vs the 124 suggested by the mold. I was ok with that. The size ran from .355.5-358.5 which was not so good.

On to the powder coat. Shake and bake following everything I have read on here using Smokes powder. Not great coverage, but this was my fault not the powder. Getting them out without removing the powder was, well, I was not successful. As they were cooking I decided some guys are not that picky so I will not worry about it this time, and deal with any leading I might get. Remove them from the oven, and they are stuck/melted to my silicone baking sheet (I read on here someone had used one). I scrape the silicone off the bottom thinking I will salvage them, but traces remain.

Take them in and start measuring them. The sizes now range .356-.362 Of course I do not have a sizer die, nor would I know what size to buy as I have nothing to slug my barrel with. I was going to just shoot them and only adjust if I had to, but 361/.362 seems like it is pushing it. Maybe I can find one of my rejects big enough to slug my barrel with.

Six hours from start until I am writing this and basically zero shootable bullets. This gentleman, is why casting equipment ends up in basements and at yard sales.

I have no option but to make this work as the money I could have spent on cheap plated bullets is tied up in equipment and lead.

This is going to be fun I told her. I will save money I told her. It will lower my blood pressure I told her.

Tomorrow I will regroup and start again.

[454PB]

Take a deep breath........................

There, now don't you feel better?

It takes time and patience to learn this stuff, and you're trying to combine several processes at once. Try one at a time, starting with producing a good boolit, then move on to sizing and lubricating (or PC'ing).

Are you loading for 9mm?

[bangerjim]

Hey man.......it's your 1st time!!!!!!!!! Get over it. Most of us have been doing this stuff for decades. We all had to learn sometime.

1st. Buy youself a hotplate and heat those mold HOT HOT! To FULL casting temp B4 ever casting a single one. By doing that, I get perfect drops from #1. Yes....it REALLY DOES works!

PC takes a lot of practice. I mean A LOT!!!!!!! It took me months of messing around with BBDT to get it to where I was satisified (ESPC quality is the standard for me). Do NOT expect it to magically work the 1st time! Especailly with BBDT. Just too many variables in that black magic voo-doo process.

I guess that is the problem today with internet technology everywhere........everybody wants everything RIGHT NOW!

Practice, my friend, practice. Get good drops before EVER moving on to PC'ing!!!!!!! You gotta learn to walk B4 you run! Time and practice are your friends.

bangerjim

[DerekP Houston]

Well, to be honest my first try was very similiar . As far as the wrinkled bullets/not filling....bangerjim mentioned the hotplate already . PC, to me, sounds like too much powder? I use a silicon mat cut to fit on my tray, the boolits kinda snap off if there is too much powder coat. I would grab a lee sizing die and maybe just practice casting until you get those looking good? The alox lasts friggin forever its just a little smoky (in my opinion), you can just use that instead of messing with PC and its a lot faster to start. I've found it takes new molds around 2-3 casting sessions to finally "break in" and start being reliable. Keep at it you've already got all the supplies.

I think you picked one of the harder calibers to start with .

[Garyshome]

First things first take one of those Fat slugs and slug the barrel [if it's not fat enough smack it with a hammer a couple of times]. Then order the proper sizing die. Next include in your order a lead thermometer [if you don't already have one] then when you get it Use it. Next keep some sprue handy to cool down the pot when it gets too hot. I drop my booltiz into a 5 gal bucket and then inspect them quickly to see what needs to be done heat wise with the lead [if the boolitz aren't any good they go into separate holding container to dry out then back into the pot]. Make sure you smoke the mold and heat it up before you start casting. I don't mess with PC'ing pistol boolitz, just lub em & shoot em.

[tazman]

Sounds like a few problems all right. Nothing that can't be cured though.
For slugging the barrel, get a few soft fishing sinkers and melt them into a spent casing(use a small torch). Use an inertial bullet puller to get the slug out. It will be just slightly larger than the groove diameter of your barrel, hence easier to drive through. Lube it with any sort of oil or grease and drive it through your barrel(brass rod preferably). Use a micrometer to get the size from the slug.
For the issues you had with the mold. It sounds to me as if the mold never really got hot enough. You need a hot plate or some other method of heating your mold up to temperature before you start. If the mold is cold, it is hard to get a casting pace going that will be fast enough to heat the mold enough to get it hot and keep it hot. The only easy way to get the mold hot enough without a hot plate is to set the mold on top of the lead pot while the lead gets up to heat.
Set the temperature control on your Lee pot to maximum. Start casting at that temperature until the boolits start dropping unwrinkled and a little frosty, then turn the temperature down to where you want it and continue casting. You can always segregate the early one and recast them later.
This is the way I do most of mine. I have been using this method for years. The first few through the mold will be a bit iffy. After the boolits start to drop cleanly, the rest will be pretty consistent.

[Bullwolf]

Everyone of my stable of 9mm auto pistols and carbines run with a .358 diameter cast lead boolit.

If I had a newer auto pistol with a very tight chamber that would only work with a .357 sized 9mm boolit, I would ream it to accept a .358 like of all my other pistols.

Here's an inexpensive sizing setup, using the $20 Lee "Lube and Sizing Kit".





And a link to a .358 Lee push through sizer die that uses Standard 7/8 x 14 threads that fit most any (modern) reloading press.
http://www.titanreloading.com/lube-s...ing-sizing-kit

There's a pretty steep learning curve with all of this stuff, and you jumped in feet first. Keep at it and you will learn by doing. Having a casting mentor close by to assist you will greatly reduce the learning curve.


- Bullwolf

[jcren]

I suspect your thermometer may be off. Preheat the mold smoking hot and set your dial on 5 or 6 after the lead is melted and cleaned and start pouring. DON'T check your bullets! Just keep pouring and watching for the sprue to frost, cut, dump repeat. If the sprue frost in less than 5 or 6 seconds, turn your heat up half a notch and/or speed your cut/dump/refill pace. Allow 5-10 cast before you decide if you need more changes. Don't check your bullets! If the sprue takes more than 8-10 seconds to frost, you are too hot. Turn your temp down a half notch and/or slow down the cut/drop/refill sequence. Allow several cast to judge the results. Once the pot is nearly empty, put the mold aside and now check your work. As you cast it helps to spread the drop piles over a large towel surface to track your progress. Grab a beer and start sorting. Repeat. Try not to get frusterated and please ask questions as needed. DONT check bullets while casting! You will loose too much mold heat and never get past wrinkles and poor fill. By the time you can check your work As you go, you will know it.

[leeggen]

Just a tip, when you slug that barrel DO NOT USE A WOODEN DOWEL to force the slug thru. It can and will break, most times it will jam and you thinkt you are flusterd now. Your doing fine, you learned sveral things in the first try. Second try will move on to more learning and some screwups. Again your doing fine, keep asking questions and getting answers.
Good luck,
CD

[PS Paul]

You're just breaking in your mold, that's all. Next time you WILL do better.
I'd drop the powder coating nonsense for a bit and just focus on making good boolits. Tumble-lubing works and is easy, inexpensive and hassle-free. Shooting "as cast" might just work for you without having to size OR powder coat.....
Keep us posted with your next results.

[Mk42gunner]

This is going to be fun I told her. It will be, have patience. I will save money I told her. You won't. It will lower my blood pressure I told her.Once everything comes together, casting can be very relaxing.

The weight variation from nominal is pretty normal. I don't think I have ever had a mold that casts exactly to the specified weight, even when casting pure lead round balls.

If you are getting 750 degrees with your dial set at 4, I would start with it set just a little below 4 and see how things act. I haven't stuck my thermometer into the pot in a few years; once I get it casting well with a given alloy, I don't mess with the dial (usually).

Stick with it, experienced casters don't learn everything by reading, they have to cast boolits. Part of learning is making mistakes and then correcting them. Look at it this way: You wouldn't expect a first grader learning how to add and subtract to be able to do college algebra, would you? It takes a bit of time.

Robert

[Iowa Fox]

I got lucky many moons ago about 46 as I think about it. Melted the wheel weights on a coal forge with coal I picked up along the Union Pacific tracks north of the farm. The coal cars hauled bigger chunks than today and it was always shaking out of the cars as they barreled down the rough tracks. There was no internet and books in rural Iowa were hard to come by. The mold dropped nice bullets, the 357 shoot great groups, and not a spec of leading. Boy was I hooked. Different guns and different molds and oh boy here came every problem you can encounter as a caster. That first lucky attempt proved to me how great cast can be and I've stuck with it ever since. Then I started to meet other more experienced casters like the old Schuetzen shooters from Davenport.

Don't give up!! I've had the results you describe with a new mold after I had been at it for years. More reading here and your problems will go away.

[lead4me]

Just SLOW down, make sure you have the basics covered. Hot mold...did I mention start with a hot mold. Dip your mold (a corner) in your lead until when you pull it out the lead does not stick to it. Then just pour yourself some nice boolits, if they don't fill out real nice add a little tin. Make a large pile of nice boolits then move to the next step in whatever process you like. right now I just pan lube and size load an shoot working my way to PCing most of my shooting is 45acp an 44mag so my path is pretty easy. Main thing is have fun..

[ArrowJ]

Take a deep breath...

There, now don't you feel better?

...[start] with producing a good boolit, then move on to sizing and lubricating (or PC'ing).

Are you loading for 9mm?

I took several! Five hours of nightmares not related to casting, some coffee, and waking up to a bunch of encouragement and advice helped.

A few of you mentioned skipping PC for now. I had that thought last night. I really did not rush things, and was not overly concerned with getting perfect coverage, but the added headaches might push me over the edge. I hate the idea of dirty sticky looking bullets, but I think Alox might be the answer for now.

I am loading and casting 9mm. I understand from the board (mentioned again below) that it can be tricky, but it was more of a necessity than anything. I bought a Springfield Armory XD Mod 2 sub compact for eventual concealed carry. It is the only gun I currently own. I almost bought a 357 Sig! I bet that would have been fun.

[ArrowJ]

Buy youself a hotplate and heat those mold HOT HOT! To FULL casting temp B4 ever casting a single one. By doing that, I get perfect drops from #1. Yes....it REALLY DOES works!

I guess that is the problem today with internet technology everywhere........everybody wants everything RIGHT NOW!

Time and practice are your friends.

I do have a hotplate, but despite the manufacturer saying the contrary, it cycles on and off and never gets that hot. I have a grand total of $55 left in my budget and a $25 Scheels gift card. If I run into an old hotplate at the Goodwill I will most certainly pick it up for $5. As mentioned below I did set the mold across the top and dip the corner in though. I will be keeping my eyes open for one as you suggest.

I do not feel like I am rushing as I have been actively planning this for a year, and collecting what I could over the course of the last several years while lurking around here. You are correct though. Those YouTube videos make it look soooo easy.

One problem I have is that I have read so much that I have all these warnings going off in my mind, and contradictory opinions etc. As an example, I worry that I am losing tin because my melt is too hot, and because it is taking me so long to get my temp to settle. I leave wood chip ash on the top, but then have to move it to dip my mold. It feels like I have read too much, but I refuse to carpet that that is possible Time and practice are the solution as you say.

[ArrowJ]

Well, to be honest my first try was very similiar .

I would grab a lee sizing die and maybe just practice casting until you get those looking good?

I think you picked one of the harder calibers to start with .

Thanks! I think this is the way to go. At least it should be a breeze when I finally get to cast for something else.

[ArrowJ]

First things first take one of those Fat slugs and slug the barrel...Then order the proper sizing die.

Next include in your order a lead thermometer then when you get it Use it.

Next keep some sprue handy to cool down the pot when it gets too hot.

Make sure you smoke the mold and heat it up before you start casting.

Proper size being .358 for a .356 barrel and so forth? I did use the thermometer (RCBS) the entire time. I ended up casting the 40 that I kept (which will be going back in the pot next time) at 750°. I also smoked the mold, but I would say my fiddling kept my mold going up and down in temp.

[ArrowJ]

Lube it with any sort of oil or grease and drive it through your barrel (brass rod preferably).

The only easy way to get the mold hot enough without a hot plate is to set the mold on top of the lead pot while the lead gets up to heat.

Set the temperature control on your Lee pot to maximum. Start casting at that temperature...

I was going to use a wooden dowel which obviously is the wrong thing to do (thanks leeggen!!). I have an old shotgun cleaning rod. Will that work?

Will I not lose tin if I run that hot for very long?

[ArrowJ]

Here's an inexpensive sizing setup, using the $20 Lee "Lube and Sizing Kit".

There's a pretty steep learning curve with all of this stuff, and you jumped in feet first. Keep at it and you will learn by doing. Having a casting mentor close by to assist you will greatly reduce the learning curve.

If I slug my barrel and need to size that is definitely the way I plan to go. A mentor yes. I guess CB will have to serve as my quasi mentor.

[ArrowJ]

I suspect your thermometer may be off.

DON'T check your bullets!

As you cast it helps to spread the drop piles over a large towel surface to track your progress. Grab a beer and start sorting. Repeat.

I was wondering about my thermometer as well. How does one check it? Boiling water? Can it be calibrated (RCBS)?

I like the towel idea a lot. Mine were in a pile.

I take it you think I should not be checking my bullets as I go? Message received and will comply.