What size sizing die to run the patched bullet thru

[roscoe]

I plan on using a push through sizing die to run my patched bullets through. Is there a rule of thumb on the size to use so the patch doesn't come off during the process?

[s mac]

I use the same as I size naked boolits for the same gun.

[Nobade]

If you size the unpatched bullet to the right size, and select the correct paper, you should have to do none to minimal sizing after patching. If you size it very much at all after patching, unwrap a couple and make sure you're not sizing the bullet itself. If you are, you'll not find very good accuracy and need to change something.

-Nobade

[Digital Dan]

And you can take that to the bank. Well said Nobade!

[s mac]

If you size the unpatched bullet to the right size, and select the correct paper, you should have to do none to minimal sizing after patching. If you size it very much at all after patching, unwrap a couple and make sure you're not sizing the bullet itself. If you are, you'll not find very good accuracy and need to change something.

-Nobade

Agreed, I should have said that the final sizing just irons the paper a bit, very little effort to run it through the die.

[OverMax]

Those who paper patch and find it necessary to resize the boolit after its been wrapped puzzles me.
Tip: Most calibers I found called for a patched boolit that measures 2-3 thousands larger than bore diameter so to garner correct boolit tightness to its rifling.
Over time I found it better to pour a cast of barrels chamber verses pounding a lead slug down a barrels bore. Chamber cast offers much more information. ie tapering forcing cone, free bore, bore diameter, rifling and its condition and more.

Tip: Lead cast 8-10 BHN hardness. (Higher numbered BHN only increases a wrapped boolits resistance not to engage and/or engrave its rifling properly which reduces grouping accuracy.)

Now for a Lee type push thru die size that isn't commercially made. __Talk to Buckshot here on this site. He'll lathe one up to your specifications or consul you on the size needed for your boolits application.

There is much more info available on this Paper Patching technique if you spend some time reading the Stickys.
Paper Patching isn't that complicated. Pioneers 150 years ago not having the education we have today could do it. No reason why we can't. Were smarter!!~~~I think?

[Nobade]

I'm not sure we're all that much smarter now. Back in the day, patching was done for muzzleloading target rifles and then cartridge rifles that had chambers cut specifically for paper patched bullets. Both burned black powder. It's super easy to get those to work well since they were made for it. Now we are trying to get guns designed for smokeless powder and jacketed bullets to shoot paper patched lead using smokeless powder. Depending on the gun's particular chamber and barrel dimensions, that may or may not be an easy thing to do. The fact that we have figured out how to get it to work reasonably well in a large number of cases is impressive to me, but to say that because the ODGs used to do it means we should be able to do so also is a bit unfair, since the rules are completely different now than they were back then.

-Nobade

[johnson1942]

nobade is 100 percent correct. size your bullets first then patch so they are correct after patching, then you dont have to resize to make them fit. some muzzle loader paperpatch shooters resize the wrapped bullet to go fit down the bore with great success in accuracy but im not of that type. for my muzzle loaders i use the single wrap chase system with out a starter. for my 2, 45/70s ive learned to dry wrap very tight a .451 bullet to about .458. the free bore or throat is .459 so they fit easily in the free bore. again nobade is correct in his advice.

[hydraulic]

The trouble is, none of the major companies make a .301 bullet mould or a sizing die for my 03 a3 . How do you get a .301 bullet to patch up to .309?

[docone31]

You soak your patch, then two turns on a casting sized .308. When dry, then lightly lube and run through a .309 die. I do this all the time.
Works in 30/06, and .308. Use notebook paper for the wrap.

[Nobade]

The trouble is, none of the major companies make a .301 bullet mould or a sizing die for my 03 a3 . How do you get a .301 bullet to patch up to .309?

NOE, Accurate Molds, and Mountain Molds come to mind as three outfits that will currently make a .301" mold.

-Nobade

[OverMax]

or you can have Buckshot a member here on C/Boolits machine you a .301 push-thru die and matching shellholder. I own 3 such dies made by Buckshot. My die's seem to be nicely machined from seamless tube steel. Its matching shell holder & Push Rod is tool steel.
When using a push thru resizing dies your not limited in cast boolit profiles. Anything profile 30 cal c/boolit can be resized to .301 As I see it. Its cheaper to buy a push-thru die/s than a brand new mold.

[Old Coot]

NOE also makes a sizing system where you can buy inserts of varying sizes as well as nose sizing dies.

[OverMax]

I guess we all have our different ways of accomplishing the Paper Patching technique. Lubes differ like the technique itself differer's. Floor polish or alox. So long as either wrapped bullet gives expected accuracy all's good.

[wmitty]

docone31 - so you are not sizing down the boolit to .301" (or whatever bore diameter) before patching, but are having success in 06 and .308? Am I understanding this correctly?

[docone31]

Excellent results.