223 AR load data help

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

snip...

PS I feel like this thread doesn't belong in "Helping Hands." Shouldn't it be in "CB Loads / Military Rifles" or a similar sub-forum?

I was thinking the same thing, but hesitated to move it, back when I made the 3rd post, because I figured BrassMagnet had a good reason for starting it here...he usually has a plan with his actions.
Jon

[BrassMagnet]

I was thinking the same thing, but hesitated to move it, back when I made the 3rd post, because I figured BrassMagnet had a good reason for starting it here...he usually has a plan with his actions.
Jon

Who? Me? Ulterior motives?

[Cowboy_Dan]

Just got my brother's 7" twist AR back together with the freefloat handgaurd. He hasn't tried any cast in it, but it would be nice to not be at the mercy of j-word suppliers. Keep the info coming for the heavies, I might be able to talk him into trying cast in it.

[BrassMagnet]

Just got my brother's 7" twist AR back together with the freefloat handgaurd. He hasn't tried any cast in it, but it would be nice to not be at the mercy of j-word suppliers. Keep the info coming for the heavies, I might be able to talk him into trying cast in it.

I can test the heavies in 1 in 7" and 1 in 8" twist barrels.

[gtgeorge]

I did the Mihec 65gr in Lino air cooled and used 23gr of Benchmark with excellent results. I have a batch of 3-3-94 that is waiting to be loaded but haven't had the time. I will try to find my pictures and see if I still have the chrony data to post and the target. Memory says it is 2500fps out of a 16" AR with no leading and what I used in several 2 gun matches though.

I also have the 75gr Mihec Nato mold but have not loaded any

[BrassMagnet]

I did the Mihec 65gr in Lino air cooled and used 23.5gr of Benchmark with excellent results. I have a batch of 3-3-94 that is waiting to be loaded but haven't had the time. I will try to find my pictures and see if I still have the chrony data to post and the target. Memory says it is 2300fps out of a 16" AR with no leading and what I used in several 2 gun matches though.

I also have the 75gr Mihec Nato mold but have not loaded any

What lube did you use?

[gtgeorge]

Lube was my own brew of Paraffin, beeswax + carnuba and lanolin. basically 50/50 on the beeswax and paraffin. I add 1 tablespoon carnuba flakes and a chunk of lanolin by eye to a 3lb batch. I didn't find my target but may have a saved picture of it from when I worked up the load a couple years ago.

BTW that is a 1:8 twist

[gtgeorge]

Okay that is what I get for using memory Dang this is happening more often as the years keep ticking. Actual load for 23.5gr lost the accuracy and 23gr was the sweet spot for me at 2500fps. Here is the data from the chrony. When loaded carefully the ES comes down of course.

23gr Benchmark 60gr Lino Lead 2.22OAL Very nice accuracy
1) 2491.0 -32.2
2) 2528.0 4.8
3) 2485.0 -38.2
4) 2476.0 -47.2
5) 2544.0 20.8
6) 2550.0 26.8
7) 2561.0 37.8
8) 2550.0 26.8
9) 2524.0 0.8

High: 2561.0
Low: 2476.0
E.S.: 85.0
Ave.: 2523.2
S.D.: 29.9
95%: ±25.9


And then a load that was okay but I wanted more speed:

String 56 AR15 .223 16" 1/8 twist Heavy Barrel
Mixed Brass once fired trimmed Tula .223 primers
60.4gr .225 sized with brass chex 2.220 OAL
24gr IMR 4320 seems accurate locks back and no problems feeding
No trace of leading and burned clean with little smoke
1) 2071.0 -33.8
2) 2120.0 15.2
3) 2105.0 0.2
4) 2090.0 -14.8
5) 2104.0 -0.8
6) 2139.0 34.2

High: 2139.0
Low: 2071.0
E.S.: 68.0
Ave.: 2104.8
S.D.: 21.5
95%: ±27.0

[BrassMagnet]

Who changed the title to"T"?

[davidheart]

George, did the same test as you using CCI#41 primers and 23gr of benchmark. My alloy was 3% tin, 4.5% antimony, 92.5% lead. Sorted brass, trimmed to length, etc. Seated to 2.20.

223 Wylde chamber. 1:8 twist. My results were vastly different. 5 shot Avg 2750fps. 4 inches at 50 yards. Light leading. Plenty of smoke.

Carnauba Red Lube. Sized .224.

Lube could have been the problem. The sizing die could have been too small (not .225). And I could have screwed up by adding a light Lee factory Crimp. I'll try again without the crimp but the only way I could size to .225 is by using the Lee push thru sizer and powder coat or tumble lube.

[gtgeorge]

I have no idea about your velocity difference unless the weight of yours with your alloy+crimp+slightly deeper OAL? I have shot hundreds of these and was quite pleased with them until I shot water jugs to dry them on deer and hogs and thought better of it cast with Lino. They exploded with over 50% weight loss and were caught in the 2nd jug. Might make good varmint bullets but I went to jacketed instead.

Is yours a 16" barrel?

At 23.5 my groups went to heck with this data:

23.5gr Benchmark 60gr Lino Lead 2.22OAL Poor accuracy
1) 2698.0 77.4
2) 2647.0 26.4
3) 2552.0 -68.6
4) 2640.0 19.4
5) 2642.0 21.4
6) 2603.0 -17.6
7) 2586.0 -34.6
8) 2582.0 -38.6
9) 2618.0 -2.6
10) 2638.0 17.4

High: 2698.0
Low: 2552.0
E.S.: 146.0
Ave.: 2620.6
S.D.: 39.4
95%: ±31.3

[BrassMagnet]

I have no idea about your velocity difference unless the weight of yours with your alloy+crimp+slightly deeper OAL? I have shot hundreds of these and was quite pleased with them until I shot water jugs to dry them on deer and hogs and thought better of it cast with Lino. They exploded with over 50% weight loss and were caught in the 2nd jug. Might make good varmint bullets but I went to jacketed instead.

Is yours a 16" barrel?

At 23.5 my groups went to heck with this data:

23.5gr Benchmark 60gr Lino Lead 2.22OAL Poor accuracy
1) 2698.0 77.4
2) 2647.0 26.4
3) 2552.0 -68.6
4) 2640.0 19.4
5) 2642.0 21.4
6) 2603.0 -17.6
7) 2586.0 -34.6
8) 2582.0 -38.6
9) 2618.0 -2.6
10) 2638.0 17.4

High: 2698.0
Low: 2552.0
E.S.: 146.0
Ave.: 2620.6
S.D.: 39.4
95%: ±31.3

Linotype is brittle. You would likely have better results with Lyman #2, 6-6-88.

[davidheart]

I have a 16" 1:8 twist. Weights with gas check and lube were 60.9gr each. I sorted to make them identical. I tried to remove every possible variable. All seated to 2.20.


I hope the problem was crimp. I'll try again tomorrow no crimp and seat to 2.22. All 5 locked the bolt, fed/ejected with no marks.

[gtgeorge]

Thanks BM for the alloy suggestion. I have several hundreds waiting on gas checks with my 3-3-94 alloy. I was considering doing PC on some to try but can't deal with trying to stand them up. I worry about accuracy although PC has better accuracy on my 35 REM than the LR factory rounds out to 200yards. I just have my doubts as the little tiny 22 bullets are also going much faster. Working on the 308 first in an AR10 first though.

I am looking forward to your tests David. I am a little confused on the velocity difference and even more so since I ran the info through QL and found very little velocity change with the extra .020 depth and .5 weight gain. QL shows only a @10fps gain for the shorter depth and extra weight. Also shows the @fps as 2678..... I need to run a few more across the chrony as I still have a few on the shelf. Surely the primer and crimp would not affect it that much?

[BrassMagnet]

Thanks BM for the alloy suggestion. I have several hundreds waiting on gas checks with my 3-3-94 alloy. I was considering doing PC on some to try but can't deal with trying to stand them up. I worry about accuracy although PC has better accuracy on my 35 REM than the LR factory rounds out to 200yards. I just have my doubts as the little tiny 22 bullets are also going much faster. Working on the 308 first in an AR10 first though.

I am looking forward to your tests David. I am a little confused on the velocity difference and even more so since I ran the info through QL and found very little velocity change with the extra .020 depth and .5 weight gain. QL shows only a @10fps gain for the shorter depth and extra weight. Also shows the @fps as 2678..... I need to run a few more across the chrony as I still have a few on the shelf. Surely the primer and crimp would not affect it that much?

My normal alloy is 3-4.5-92.5, so I am looking forward to your 3-3-94 results.

A higher tin content makes the boolits flow and mushroom better. Higher antimony makes them more brittle.

A friend of mine did a lot of experimenting and decided the best performance in a Garand came when the tin content equaled the antimony content. I wonder if Lyman stumbled on that with Lyman #2. Could we maybe do just as well with 3-3-94 as with 6-6-88? It sure would be nice to know!

[BrassMagnet]

Thanks BM for the alloy suggestion. I have several hundreds waiting on gas checks with my 3-3-94 alloy. I was considering doing PC on some to try but can't deal with trying to stand them up. I worry about accuracy although PC has better accuracy on my 35 REM than the LR factory rounds out to 200yards. I just have my doubts as the little tiny 22 bullets are also going much faster. Working on the 308 first in an AR10 first though.

I am looking forward to your tests David. I am a little confused on the velocity difference and even more so since I ran the info through QL and found very little velocity change with the extra .020 depth and .5 weight gain. QL shows only a @10fps gain for the shorter depth and extra weight. Also shows the @fps as 2678..... I need to run a few more across the chrony as I still have a few on the shelf. Surely the primer and crimp would not affect it that much?

Try 311414!

[davidheart]

....

I was considering doing PC on some to try but can't deal with trying to stand them up...

I am looking forward to your tests David. I am a little confused on the velocity difference and even more so since I ran the info through QL and found very little velocity change with the extra .020 depth and .5 weight gain. QL shows only a @10fps gain for the shorter depth and extra weight. Also shows the @fps as 2678..... I need to run a few more across the chrony as I still have a few on the shelf. Surely the primer and crimp would not affect it that much?

Powder coating 22 boolits is a pain in the butt. BUT my most consistent results thus far have been with the Lyman 50gr, powder coated. If all fails, me and my single cavity mold are going to be casting up a bunch of 223 rounds, even though they aren't "heavies."


To velocity, I'd suggest the primers might be at fault. CCI #41. They're technically "5.56" primers. I think I read somewhere they've been compared to Small Rifle Magnum primers... I'll try standard primers next time.


Exact velocities were: 2711, 2792, 2762, 2826, 2727 -> 2763 Average - Remove the odd round and it's 2748 fps.


All weights and measurements were absolutely exact. (Cases, bullets, gas checks, lube fill, trim, powder) I felt almost stupid being so meticulous to ensure every round was identical. I never did that with my 22 hornet rounds and everything in the Hornet just seems to "work" very pleasantly.

Edit: Yep, the CCI Website lists the #41 primers as "Small Rifle Magnum." And I quote, "Use the same data as CCI Magnum Primers." http://www.cci-ammunition.com/produc...ers.aspx?id=30

[Oklahoma Rebel]

it was me, I Tee'd you! just kidding lol

[davidheart]

Sorry I didn't get back sooner. The weather was pretty bad for shooting for a few days. (rainy/cloudy)

I got to chronograph today with standard Federal Small Rifle Primers and came up with the following results:

1) 2497 - Bolt Locked
2) 2491 - Bolt Locked
3) 2514 - Bolt Locked
4) 2475 - Bolt Locked
5) Error - Bolt Locked

No Leading.

Average - 2494
S.D. - 16

Well.... looks like I sent a bullet through the backside of my chronograph on the last round... Wonder why?

The mount on my rifle had gotten loose and was shooting WAY off center. Not one of the rounds made it to the target but I won't fault the ammo for that.

Tightened down the mount, blue loktite, loaded up some Hornady 55gr Soft Point hand loads, and proceeded to put 10 rounds less than an inch quick shooting. Was shooting at 75 yards for these loads. Sometimes when you're shooting test loads and keep getting bad accuracy it's nice to throw down something you know works to build your confidence back up.

Bummer on the cast load but I'll need to load up and try again. The weather is taking a turn for the worse again. I'll have some data out before the end of the week. However I have high hopes for it! Those were very consistent velocities and the bolt locked every time. I'm sure the accuracy would have reflected positively.

[rancher1913]

looks like georgeonedollar pilfered your other title letters, can't wait to see where they turn up.