Contender 30-30 Cases Spliting

[Westwindmike]

I have been loading 30-30 for my Marlin for a good while and just recently been loading for my Contender Carbine. I have been without a 30-30 for a while and am shooting up some older reloads in the Contender. Some are good and some not so good. I have a favorite load for my Marlin and when I shot them today in the Contender, I was getting split cases.

The box had been loaded since 2011 and like I said, shot good in the Marlin. I'm using 20.0 gr of AA 5744 with a 311041 with GC. The load shot great in the Contender today, but about half the cases came out split.

Is it possible that 5744 when left loaded for long periods of time do this? Or, since I don't really know the history of these cases, (given to me), that they were just on their last legs? Cases were R-P, Winchester, Super X and even a DWM.

Thanks for any insight.

[JSH]

Unknown brass is prone to give mixed results. TC's are known for a generous chamber. All of mine are barrel and frame specific. Also each is gun specific as far as that goes.
Headspace the 30-30 TC barrel on the shoulder and not the rim, life will be good. I also neck anneal after 4-5 reloads and bump the shoulder then.
Anything you know or think you know about bolt guns, autos or lever actions doesn't apply to this platform.

[OS OK]

The shoulder looks like it was being held 'proud' of being seated by perhaps the boolit or the fact that they need trimming…something on that order.

The other thought I had was whether or not they need annealing and the way they were cleaned last. I think that ammonia is a no-no in brass cleaning as it is suppose to attack the molecular outer structure of the brass itself…don't listen too closely regarding my assumption on the ammonia but I know that a common chemical like ammonia attacks the brass.

Something caused that shoulder not to expand and seat against the shoulder in the chamber…as long as there is no defect in the chamber dimensions I am thinking first…brittle brass.

Just my .02 Cents…OS OK

PS there is a minimum and maximum on chamber dimensions by SAMMI…I read it somewhere that if your chamber is on the maximum size and your size die is on the minimum size that there is room right there for trouble with brittle brass, head spacing problems, light primer strikes and so on and so forth.
Will you keep us posted on the results of your investigation?
I just love riddles like this one!

OS OK

[Earlwb]

I would agree in that it is possible you have a larger chamber that is still within specs. Then using a die set that resizes for the minimum could cause a problem. You may want to get a casting of the chamber and measure it to see what it has. You could also try a go-no-go gauge set too, just in case. But with unknown brass it could simply be that all the brass was old and brittle leading to the cracks. What bothers me is the cracks all seem to be at the shoulder on the cases. It may be that the reloading die resized the shoulders a little bit too far back in some manner.

Now then if your regular ammunition is working fine then it would tend to point to the brass being the culprit.

[GRUMPA]

I was notified from a person that had the exact same thing happen. Now bear with me a minute on this......his was a 30Rem but every round he fired the necks split just like yours did. He sent me the cases and I gauged them and a few other things.

I sent him brass that was actually longer by .010 by the gauge dimension and annealed. So far he's used the same cases 4 times last time he wrote me and I made a sorrowful fellow rather happy.

I actually suspect those were full length sized and not annealed. If you get anymore brass I would fire form a few and only neck size them and give them a good annealing job after that.

My .02

[Westwindmike]

These cases were full length resized to fit the Marlin chamber. All my cases are now slightly to short from shoulder to rim. None of the other cases have done this. I'm hoping that these were just old, brittle and worn out.

[Tatume]

Old, brittle, and worn out. My 309 JDJ cases did the same recently, so I made a new batch. Guarantee the JDJ barrel did not have a generous chamber.

[John Taylor]

Have found that brass will get more brittle with age.You might try doing a chamber cast and seeing if the shoulder is in the right place. Try annealing the brass and fire a round in each rifle and compare.

[rwadley]

Have found that brass will get more brittle with age.

I have found this to be true sometimes. I fired 60 rounds of some ammo that was 40 years old and had about a third of them split. Then again, I have fired hundreds of rounds of ammo the same age and had no splits. It might have something to do with proper storage or what kind of powder was in them. I am not sure.

[Doc Highwall]

In post #2 JSH said it correctly. The 30-30 was designed to head space off the rim meaning that the shoulder can be pushed back too far when full length sizing, reset your dies so the case head-spaces off the shoulder, not the rim. I do the same thing with belted magnums like the 338 Winchester set the head-space off the shoulder.

Here is a good article about setting the head-space for Encores and Contenders.

http://www.bellmtcs.com/store/index.php?cid=242

[leadman]

You probably have old brittle brass a stated. To load for a Contender or any break action rifle takes a slightly different procedure. While the chamber can be in spec one has to take into account any clearance between the end of the chamber and the barrel. I have seen as much a .006" clearance and as little a 0. The barrel should not contact the standing breech of the frame.
It is proper to headspace a rimmed case off the shoulder for a break action gun as this will factor in the clearance mentioned above. An easy way to measure this is to remove the extractor from the barrel and insert an unloaded case in chamber. Then using and automotive feeler guage insert a .004" gauge between the base of the case and the standing breech while closing the action. If it closes and the hammer will stay cocked open the action and try a thicker gauge. .004" is about the max dimension you would want to see. If the action won't close insert thinner gauges until the action will close, the hammer will stay cocked and the gauge will slip out with a little resistance.
I fireform cases to fit my chamber with a fast powder and Cream of Wheat cereal. I then resize the case until a .001" to .0015" feeler gauge will pull out with slight resistance. This gives good case life and allows the interlock in the frame to set so the hammer will stay cocked. If the frame has to slammed shut you have too little clearance.
Mike Bellm has some very good info on his website on how to make the Contender and Encore perform at their best.

[Westwindmike]

I have checked my barrel to frame gap and a .002 will not pull out. A .001 will. I have reset my sizing die to make the case as close to flush with the barrel as I can get it. So I do now have my new brass contacting the shoulder but not the rim. Hope his works out better for me. Thanks for all the help and comments.

[leadman]

Should work fine. I have been loading for the Contender/Encore for about 25 years. Use one of your resized cases in the chamber and close the action normally. Then cock the hammer. If it stays back you are good to go.