Which rifle for white tail

[fryboy]

Have to get close ( might as well use a bow then ...) Having said that either one would work within it's limited range so pick the one you shoot most accurately and don't look back

[Outpost75]

If those were my only choices for a rifle I would probably just pull the ever present 45 colt and use it. It's worked for me too many times...Seriously though for me it would be 30 carbine. Both will work fine if you put it in the right spot. Both will fail miserably if you don't.

Agree, properly loaded .44-40 or .45 Colt revolver is as good as a .30-30 and LOTS better than a .30 carbine or 9mm wounder.

I mostly hunt deer with a Ruger Old Army black powder revolver and .45 roundball at about 1000 fps from 7-1/2" barrel. I limit myself to shots within 25 yards and at that range a round ball will shoot through both shoulders of a whitetail. I do pick shots carefully and pass up anything marginal, but have not lost an animal I actually shot at.

Knowledge of deer anatomy, stalking skill, patience and marksmanship!

[Artful]

Seen plenty of deer killed with M1 Carbine as a kid in Oregon in blacktail country in the coastal range - close in shooting there. Also talked to lots of Vets who could show scars from 9mm SMG.

My experience is a 357 Carbine shoots about like people think a 357 handgun does.

And yes lots of deer and cattle have fallen to 22LR
- it's all about knowing how to use your tool.

[Bullwolf]

I have both rifles, and have used neither one on a deer, but it's a deer not an elk. For thin skinned game, I'm sure either one would do the job if you placed the shot correctly.

Between the two ballistically, I would probably pick the 30 carbine with a soft point bullet.

If forced to use a pistol caliber carbine to shoot a deer with, I'd prefer my Ruger 77 in 357 Magnum both for the accuracy, and the energy. My venerable old 30/30 Winchester has been my deer rifle for a long while now, and I've yet to see a reason to change it - Why fix it if it isn't broken?

Here's a few links you may find interesting, from Ballistics by the inch.

9mm shows a mild velocity improvement from a carbine length barrel.
http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/9luger.html

The 357 magnum cartridge gains much more velocity from a longer barrel.
http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/357mag.html



- Bullwolf

[Good Cheer]

Only knew one fella that hunted deer with a .30 carbine but he also dropped geese with it.
After dealing with the Montagnards he didn't seem to much care what Uncle Sam said about steel shot.

[Vann]

Hmm, 30 carbine to weak?

30 carbine 110 gr. bullet 1990 fps 976 ft-lb
44 magnum 240 gr. bullet 1180 fps 741 ft-lb
357 magnum 158 gr. bullet 1240 fps 539 ft-lb

Yeah, it's weak but not that weak. There's a reason that I bought an Auto mag III for hunting.

[Mica_Hiebert]

I was just arguing with my buddy about it. I think the 9mm out of a 16.5" barrel is about like a 357mag from a revolver. And I do have much better choices. Thanks guys. Some responses were funny

You only gain about 100 fps out of the carbine. With that said my brother shot a doe with his 9mm ar15 using gold dot hollow points just so he could prove Internet naysayers wrong. Use what you want. Choose your shots and happy hunting.

[northmn]

Interesting contmplation. Once just for discussion I asked what some would consider the minimum rifle they would use for deer. Differing responses. Also one should have some experience with lesser calibers for comment. After about 50 years of der hunting with bows, revolvers, muzzle loaders and modern rifles I am not as definite as some that love to cite modern ballistic theory which is mostly BS. KE does not mean that much either as any user of a 35 Remington or some of the older thumpers can tell you.
Mostly to me it is an issue of comfort. I would feel kind of silly holding a smaller caliber like the 30 carbine in some of my stands where a longer shot of over 100 yards might present itself. I realized that when I took out my Rossi 357 last fall. My comfort zone lies with the 30-30 or my old 35 Remington. I picked up a 243 to play with last fall and am comfortable with it despite one thread on the 243 I read where a couple of armchair quarterbacks were knocking it as being marginal. My complaint with it lay in the fact that I process my own meat and gave a lot of blood splattering typical of higher velocity rifles. Been told that Nosler partitions can help with that. I have some stands where the I am comfortable with the 357 as the shots are closer.
I also chatted with some that like to play with a 32-20. One individual claimed that he had a 30 day hunting season and a 5 deer limit. I have a 2 week season, one deer and often bucks only. I am not going to play around with some pipsqueak caliber when I might get one chance at a decent deer. When we had a 5 deer limit which was aimed at anterless permits then one could play around a bit.

DP

[aspangler]

I have killed deer with about anything from .223 to 45-70. I still like my old 30-30 for where I hunt. 50-75 yard shots. If I am going to hunt farther than that, I personally would preferr my 270, 30-06, or 8mm Mauser. I have a 7.62x54 that is waitng to get a deer but the 30 carbine would work fine at the shorter ranges if the shot placement is good. It all comes down to Shot placement, Shot placement, Shot placement.
That's just my two cent worth. Take it for what it is worth. YMMV

[Lloyd Smale]

keep in mind that at one time in this country the 3220 was considered a great deer rifle and some even claimed the 2520 was. the 30 carbine is hands down more powerful then either of those factory loaded. I personaly don't think energy figures mean much and having used both a 44 mag handgun and a 30 carbine id take the 44 handgun hands down over the 30 for 100 yard or less deer shooting. Id bet the old 30 would give a 357 lever gun a good run though.

[northmn]

As stated I once asked about what some considered the "minimum" for a deer rifle. Basically my experience over the past 50 years or so cannot provide a real answer. The 30 carbine was illegal for deer in Minnesota for many years, but some used it anyway and got deer with it. But note for a military cartridge it never really got the acceptance of other cartridges. Civilian versions such as a 62 Marlin never went over. In a lever rifle like the 62 or some other combination it could be loaded like a 32-20 or slightly over. Some 32-20 loads with todays powders get pretty close to the carbine load.
One of my puzzles is how popular the 44-40 was over the years. Its standard rifle load is not even a strong pistol load by todays standards. Those that use it on deer claim it works OK. For years I shot and built muzzle loaders. Very few are that powerful with round ball. they kill deer but some claimed the 40 was a bit light and the 45 RB not so good over 75 yards where RB's start to fizzle downrange. I still believe there is a good reason that the 30-30 became the "deer rifle" as to power levels and such.

DEP

[Wayne Smith]

My Uberti short rifle in 44-40, 37gr Goex FFG, 200gr Big Lube boolit, gets 1400fps. Within range, say 75 yds., should be OK for deer. BP loads aren't pipsqueek by any means. I have no idea what the factory smokeless loads do. The 30-30 became popular because of how flat it shoots compared to the 45-70 or the 44-40 and it's downrange power compared to the 44-40.

[DougGuy]

30 Carbine WILL kill deer, and no matter WHAT caliber you shoot one with, shot placement is STILL KEY.

That said, look to a bigger heavier boolit if you want to kill it humanely and quickly. Anything besides a head/neck shot with a 30 Carbine is going to take a lot more bleeding out and it will run a lot farther before it expires.

I would not even carry a 9mm in the field hunting. It doesn't even rate consideration as a viable cartridge for ethical whitetail hunting.

[Hickory]

This is not a trick question. Marlin Camp 9 or a 30 carbine? No, really. Which one?

Neither!!!
While both are able to kill deer, I would not choose either one for that endeavour.
If you can afford it, buy a rifle more suited for the job at hand. Clean kills on any animal is to be desired.
No one but a slob hunter would use a gun that would more likely wound than kill.
Man up, and get the proper equipment.

[Wayne Smith]

Poachers in Maine will shoot deer with .22's because they are quiet. Close head shots and it works. The issue is distance and shot placement, not specifically the gun. If you are hunting in normal hunting conditions where you are likely to have shots from 25yds to 150yds you have to pass up shots that your gun won't reliably kill. You have to be a hunter, not a deer killer. If you are not up to this, don't try it.

[northmn]

Poachers in Maine will shoot deer with .22's because they are quiet. Close head shots and it works. The issue is distance and shot placement, not specifically the gun. If you are hunting in normal hunting conditions where you are likely to have shots from 25yds to 150yds you have to pass up shots that your gun won't reliably kill. You have to be a hunter, not a deer killer. If you are not up to this, don't try it.

Problem with the headshots with any caliber is that a miss can ruin the jaw area and the deer will not be found and die. Some do like to take the head shot if they get a back of the head shot. One contributer one time said he killed a deer with a slingshot when he was a kid (kind of got in trouble with dad) We see all kinds of tables where X energy is needed or some such egg headed math. As one with a degree in math I can call it egg headed. I could write an article called BULListics. Defining what constitutes a good deer rifle is tough. I sold a 270 and don't miss it. Processing my own meat I felt it was too much rifle at closer ranges. A shoulder shot meant throwing away the shoulder, often both. The 243, 30-30, 32 Special, 35 Remington, 300 Savage that we call deer rifles work fine. I can relate to the 38-55, 44-40 and other similar pumpkin slingers like the 44 mag also. My 38-55 worked well on deer. Ranges, I've shot them from about 15 feet to over 200 yards. Prefer Waynes standards.
I knew a few hunters that used the 32-20's and 25-20's as kids and got deer with them but they moved up to larger rifles. A friend of mine that went to school with me has shot more deer than most any 2 of us and loved the 30-30. Claimed when he counted he had 26 straight one shot kills. Daughter had 5 and I do not remember shooting a deer more than once with one.
In MN the deer can get pretty fuzzy with their winter coats and tend to put on a lot of fat. The 2 I shot last year did not leave an immediate blood trail. Both were easy to find. I just am not comfortable with going too small.

DP

[Bigslug]

Between the two? Depends a little on what you're loading.

For factory ammo, I'd take the Marlin with one of the 9mm 147 grain duty loads and not think twice about taking a deer inside of 50 yards with decent angle.

I'd probably prefer the carbine if I could shoot my own cast out of it. Plenty of guys hunting deer with flat nose cast bullets that aren't likely to expand in the 150-200 grain at 1600-2200fps range in various .30 calibers. All a .30 Carbine lacks is a little bit of mass, but as has been said, there was a time when the .32-20 was considered plenty. I think it's really the era of poorly constructed jacketed that has programmed us to think we need to throw so much weight at such high speeds.

[lefty o]

while neither is what id call optimum, they will both kill a whitetail at reasonable distances. the biggest baddest whitetail isnt exactly armor plated, they die quickly if you put the bullet where it belongs.

[MT Gianni]

Either or, no real difference but don't take any shot you cannot guarantee will go in the ear hole.

[warboar_21]

My friends mom used a Winchester M1 Carbine to hunt Mule deer in Idaho and Utah growing up. Not the most ideal choice by today's standards where nothing short of a magnum will kill a ground squirrel.

If you are within ethical hunting ranges and could put the bullet where it needs to go then you will fill your tag.