Best mould for M1A?

[kevin]

Recently bought a M1A scout squad in 7.62 by 51 of course. Naturally I went with a Noe bullet mould its the 311291 a 169 gr round nose jobber I choose this one mainly because it was in stock and have documented similar round nose bullets working well in the M1A, it seems to feed good most of the time but the rifleing does leave slight engravings on an ejected unfired round. Bullet is seated to crimp groove and Ye Olde roll crimp applied. I have review the service rifle section and threads extensively and while guys there did make note of some lyman moulds(as far as i know those bullets are too heavy for the 1-11 twist like 200 grainers from BruceB i believe). But at this point in my life I cant see buying anything less than a five cavity especially for an auto loader! I gather that the throat dimensions in the m1a need a specific nose shape/dimension i have been trying to figure out just what that is but im not really getting any where. Sooo does any body out there have any really excellent performing cast bullet suggestions for the M1A? something in a five cavity or more? Also i'm going to try and seat the 311291 clear up on the top driving band to get the nose of it out of the throat and try the dedicated taper crimp die but i suspect it wont hold that thing in place when the round is feeding into battery(at least not without applying so much force as to deform the bullet). Thanks for Any and all help guys.

Kevin

[Screwbolts]

Kevin, I am having good luck shooting the Arsenal, 170 gr 30 HVTH Sliver in a bollt 308 gun. My mold is a 5 cavity and they offer I believe the Sliver in 2 to 5 cavity versions, buyers choice.

http://www.arsenalmolds.com/

I believe it was made to fit the 7.62/308 chamber and case neck. I wish my 308 barrel was 1x12 or even as slow as a 1x17.

Take a look at the thread for it.

Ken

[kevin]

Hey Ken thanks for the info that is a very interesting mould/boolet I think you might be rite about that boolet fitting the 7.62/308 chamber/throat from an inital look at the schematic they have on the site. Are you crimping that boolet and if so what type? taper maybe?. On the M1A there is a lot of forward force on the boolet when the round is chambered so much so that medium to heavy crimping is required to keep the boolet in place upon chambering. I have not had good results with a taper crimp on a lead boolet(at least when it come to this M1A), seems like if I put enough taper crimp to actually hold it in place upon going into battery then it is enough force to deform the soft lead boolet inside. Also what handles are you using? and are they a good fit for that mould? At first glance on Arsenals website they don't seem to have a proprietary set of mould handles but i may have missed it. And hows is it holding up as far as durability(you know how the lee moulds gall aluminum pretty badly where the sprue plate rubs the top of the mould) does it seem to be a harder aluminum than a lee mould? And lastly what about leading? it dosent hold much lube. i would be using the carnuba red.

[JRPVT]

Kevin, there is a sticky in the " Cast Boolits/ Military Rifles" section about casting and loading for the M1A. Many Kudos to those who put it all together. Dave

[Screwbolts]

Kevin, I have crimped a few of the loads I have shot with the 30 HVTH boolit. I use a separate die and station to crimp, and the LEE factory crimp die is my only choice for crimping any rifle case. With the Lee, a crimp groove isn't required, the die is of a colet design ( if u haven't seen one before ) and will make it's own crimp grove. the amount of crimp is easily controlled with this die.

The Arsenal, NOE, Mihec molds are all set up to use the 6 cavity lee handles, as I look at Arsenals listing I see it states that they are cut to fit LEE 6 cavity handles. IMHO, WOW, please don't compare the extruded aluminum that I believe LEE uses in their molds to the Cut aluminum blocks of a know quality aluminum alloy that all the other custom mold maker use.

Do a search of Sprueplate lube on this site , or Bullplate lube and see how you can even cast with in IMHO lee molds with no galling.

Take a look at the XCB thread here and you will see that with shallow grease groove High velocity is possible with no leading at all. Even at 2240 FPS from my rifle the end of the bore appears wet with the single groove of the 30 HVTH design. somewhere in the XCB threads I believe Larry Gibson wrote that in the design discussions for that boolit he wanted one grease grove but was out voted and that is why the XCB has several. Update 4-2-2016, I have found that I was wrong on the previously written information, Larry Gibson,wanted 2 lube grooves from the beginning and I remembered wrong. I hope many see this. The 30 HVTH boolit has one dedicated groove and also a small groove left on the shank of the boolit in front of the gas check, for #2 or more lube in front of the check.

Ken

PS: as stated I have had no leading of the barrel with "simple lube" I believe "Canuba red" is what they are using to get true HV from the XCB. Canuba Red is a well documented lube, IMHO so is simple lube.

[BUCKEYE BANDIT]

Kevin,
This is the place to look for M1A load work up.Bruce B. posted his success' and failures for years.We lost Bruce a while back,but he sure left us some great research.If not for he and Larry Gibson I would still be floundering.My go to for now is the Lyman 311041,I had the same issue with the 311291 engraving (works great in the Garand though).Winter shut down the R&D but now just waiting for a day with-out full value 25mph wind.

Kevin, there is a sticky in the " Cast Boolits/ Military Rifles" section about casting and loading for the M1A. Many Kudos to those who put it all together. Dave

P.S. These are in a M1A Scout Squad (got a Leatherwood for Christmas ,should improve accuracy .

[kevin]

Hey guys thanks for the info this is all Sooo helpful. Buckeye silly question maby but what kind nose deformation do you get on the nose of the 311041 from the feed ramp in the M1A ive seen reference to flat noses getting a "chunk" taken out of them from the stepped feed ramp in these M1A's? Are you casting really hard alloy? Ive noticed some pretty significant deformation with the 311291 although the hardest alloy Ive tried so far is just straight wheelweights. Also are you getting shoulder dings on the case with that bullet? Whats your C.O.L. if you dont mind me asking?

[Screwbolts]

Kevin, Try water dropping your WW alloy boolitz from the mold once you get the mold hot enough to uniformly frost the boolitz. It will take 2 weeks for the WD projectiles to stabilize hardness if left at air temp, this process can be sped up by placing WD boolitz in your freezer for at least 24 hrs.

Ken

[BUCKEYE BANDIT]

Kevin,
No nose damage,had to look really hard for any shoulder dings on the 20 I shot Sat. ,not enough of a ding to get a picture of !! . C.O.L. is from Lyman Cast 4th 2.617 (still moving that around a little).As Screwbolts suggested WW water dropped my alloy water dropped is at 16-17 BHN. Image is my dummy round stripped from the magazine several times

Hey guys thanks for the info this is all Sooo helpful. Buckeye silly question maby but what kind nose deformation do you get on the nose of the 311041 from the feed ramp in the M1A ive seen reference to flat noses getting a "chunk" taken out of them from the stepped feed ramp in these M1A's? Are you casting really hard alloy? Ive noticed some pretty significant deformation with the 311291 although the hardest alloy Ive tried so far is just straight wheelweights. Also are you getting shoulder dings on the case with that bullet? Whats your C.O.L. if you dont mind me asking?

[Screwbolts]

I have found that I was wrong on the previously written information, Larry Gibson,wanted 2 lube grooves from the beginning and I remembered wrong. I hope many see this.

Ken