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Thread: 358 Winchester

  1. #21
    Boolit Master

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    Some have discussed using an ar-10 action for a 358 win. Serious thump for a plastic gun without going to expensive speciality rounds (beowolf, etc)
    "In God we trust, in all others, check the manual!"

  2. #22
    Boolit Master
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    Blammer, what would be the price on that 444 Marlin?
    Some people live and learn but I mostly just live

  3. #23
    Boolit Master
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    I have one of the Rugers and a Browning BLR. As a lefty I appreciate the lever gun, and it's plenty accurate too. It was a bit spendy, especially compared to the Ruger since I bought it when Bud's was clearing them out.

    My first 35 caliber rifle was a Marlin XL7 that I converted to 35 Whelen. If I had started with the 358 I doubt I ever would have made the Whelen.
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  4. #24
    Boolit Master
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    I have a Remington 700 Classic in .350 rem mag. It is a deer slayer, but with the short action I am limited on the bullet weights I can use. I have the RCBS 200 gr and that may be about it as far as bullet weights are concerned.
    I always wished I had been able to get the 700 Classic in the Whelen ,but it was not in the cards.
    I have owned several .348's and the .358 I like the .350 mag
    It is a great round , that never really got off the ground.
    Last edited by Clay M; 03-06-2016 at 08:48 PM.

  5. #25
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    wolfer, PM sent

    elkins45, I too took a Marlin xl7 (mine in 30-06) and turned it into a 35 whelen. Shilen barrel. It really likes the 200gr cast bullets, at about 2500fps.

  6. #26
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    I have a Savage 99 Brush Gun in .358. If you want to deer hunt with cast, this is the round for you, very easy to get good accuracy with deer killing loads in it. I really like it.

  7. #27
    Boolit Master

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    Try poking around in the used rifle racks and maybe you can find an already sporterized Model 98 in .243 or .308, then send it to JES. I had a such a critter, somebody had done a decent sporter job on it in the 50's or 60's, and it was way too heavy as a .300 Savage but it is just right as a .358. A 98 action will also give you a little more magazine length to work with.

  8. #28
    Boolit Master
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    I would like to have a Ruger #1 in .358 I may rebarrel one that I have someday.

  9. #29
    Boolit Master RU shooter's Avatar
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    Something to thing about , one can buy a lot of 35 rem brass with change left over for the cost of a 358 rifle used / converted or otherwise . But I'm a 35 rem fan .
    If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!

  10. #30
    Boolit Master
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    Get a cheap Savage 99E in .308 and rebore. I have Savage 99's and a BLR in .358. BLR's must be kept ABSOLUTELY CLEAN, dry and room temperature to function reliably. I have several .358, .300 Win Mag, .325. All have absolutely miserable triggers, marginal at the bench, completely unpleasant in the field. I keep hoping but still carry a Savage 99 .358 Or Marlin .45-70 for elk. The only trouble with a Marlin .35 Rem rechambered to .358 is somebody will shoot .358 full pressure loads, probably won't come apart (??) but headspace might stretch over time. .#% Rem can be loaded +P in the Marlin. You can buy a lot of .35 Rem brass for the cost of rechambering.

  11. #31
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by RU shooter View Post
    Something to thing about , one can buy a lot of 35 rem brass with change left over for the cost of a 358 rifle used / converted or otherwise . But I'm a 35 rem fan .
    Oh sure, go and spoil his justification for a new rifle with an economics argument
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  12. #32
    Boolit Master
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    I believe the .358 win has a certain following , like the .41magnum.
    The people that really like it seem to be dedicated to it.
    It is a great caliber no doubt.
    Last edited by Clay M; 03-07-2016 at 02:56 PM.

  13. #33
    Boolit Master RU shooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elkins45 View Post
    Oh sure, go and spoil his justification for a new rifle with an economics argument
    hey someone had to ! LOL Trying to steer blammer away from peer pressure is all both are great for cast and if I already didn't have a bolt action 35 rem I'd probably be wanting a .358 too
    If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!

  14. #34
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    lol

    I'm now wondering if I should build a 358 Win on a long or a short action...

  15. #35
    Boolit Buddy


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    I've had a 358 BLR now for about 30 years, sweet shooting handy rifle that needs to see more use ( like all my others)

  16. #36
    Boolit Grand Master Artful's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blammer View Post
    lol

    I'm now wondering if I should build a 358 Win on a long or a short action...
    I'm doing mine on Winchester Post 64 Long action -
    A) because I own it
    B) because it's a swap barrel and I just have to have the barrel long threaded and chambered and I can screw it on and head space it myself.
    C) and it will take the heavy long boolits in the magazine where my Savage 99 won't.

    I have to pick twist - Goodsteel and Larry Gibson are recommending 16" twist but I was thinking 14" and someone else has a 12" twist that's shooting good groups.
    Decisions, Decisions...

    My next problem is deciding if I want to suppress it
    - I have pistol cans which would work with subsonic loads
    but I know Mr. Murphy and I want a can that can withstand rifle loads.

    I also want it to be cleanable.
    So that means a Steel or Titanium (out of budget) can and DIY
    which means a Form 1 build, question is 35 cal - 44 cal - 45 cal rifle can?

    - And I want to pick a thread that will not be usable with my
    existing 5/8x24 threaded .30 cal suppresssor.

    because .35 doesn't go into .30 evenly. And that would be a bad Boo Boo
    je suis charlie

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  17. #37
    Boolit Master
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    I would go with the 1:12" twist, and look at 250-275gr bullets. I have a like-new VZ-500 sitting here on the table. I keep thinking it would make the perfect 358 Winchester woods rifle or carbine. They came drilled and tapped, and have that neat side lever floor plate release.

    It was at the top of the list for this year, but a 9,3x62 with an 18 inch barrel and mannlicher stock beat it out.

    too many projects on the table...

    Rich

  18. #38
    Boolit Master

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    I have a T/C Contender barrel chambered in a 358 Bellm.
    You might ask, what's a .358 Bellm? Well, basically it's a .358 Winchester with a rim on the case.
    You make the cases by running a 444 Marlin case into a 358 Winchester die. And you have a 358 Winchester with a rim on it.
    If I remember correctly the chamber is cut short so that a .358 Winchester will not chamber in it.
    Only draw back with this round is, you can't or should not load it to .358 Winchester pressures.
    But, still I get 2000 fps with a 200 gr. bullet out of a 15" barrel.
    Just one more idea to consider.
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  19. #39
    Boolit Master wrench man's Avatar
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    So this "358 Bellm" is really nothing more than the 356 Winchester?
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  20. #40
    Boolit Grand Master Artful's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrench man View Post
    So this "358 Bellm" is really nothing more than the 356 Winchester?





    http://www.bellmtcs.com/BellmTriad/358BellmData.htm
    About the Data, and My Comments About the Cartridge.:

    First and foremost, it is understood that both Mike Bellm and Don Shearer disclaim any liability that may result from the use of this data. You use it at your own risk. Since there are variables from gun to gun that can effect the results you obtain, it is imperative that you always start low and work up. Do not ever use any loading data like a cook book and just dump in the top load and hope for the best. Always, if there is any hint of hard opening after firing or difficult extraction, back loads off.

    If you have not done so, please read about Don's testing regimen in the .308 Bellm Data section, link in the left hand menu bar.

    The .35 caliber barrels made by TC have had some misfortunes that make them good buys and popular candidates for rechambering to .358 Bellm.

    A number of shooters have had problems with misfires in the .35 Rem factory barrels, and although these barrels have been among the most accurate that TC has produced, .35 Rem. barrels often sell used at modest prices, making them excellent candidates for rechambering to .358 Bellm.

    .357 Herrett barrels, while usually excellent barrels, receive limited attention from only those willing to cut cases back and fireform. Reloading dies have been commonly available, but do usually cost more, which is another drawback. Plus, case life of .30/30 brass is viewed by some as being too short for the work expended making the cases.

    The excellent .357 Rem. Maximum was dealt a dirty blow from the first day TC chambered for this round using a .4" long forcing cone ahead of the chamber instead of a throat. This cone goes from the .380" chamber diameter down to bore diameter in a cone over the distance of .4" and gives absolutely no positive support to the shanks of bullets. Thus they enter the rifling at random angles and give accuracy far below the potential of this round. Results from this very accurate cartridge are undermined by TC's choice of chamber and throat design and this has done tremendous damage to interest in the .357 Maximum. Thus, here is another example of a .35 cal. factory barrel that can often be picked up used for a reasonable price.

    The reason I have detailed this scenario is because at first I could not understand why so many people were sending in .35 cal. barrels for rechambering to .358 Bellm when the overall interest in .35 cal. Contender barrels appeared to be quite low. Dealers had commented time and again that it was harder to make the .35s "go away" than it was other calibers. Thus the prices were somewhat depressed. But when a barrel can be bought reasonably, one can well afford to put some money into redoing it. This seems to be the basis for the unexpected popularity of the .358 Bellm.

    The TC factory 8 equal land and groove barrels tend to run .001" to .002" undersize, so after market barrels with true .358" groove diameters and conventional narrower rifling may permit higher velocities than poste below.

    On this continent, from a Contender there is little need for more power than the .358 Bellm delivers.

    Granted, there are larger cartridges that are quite popular, but much of the popularity is based more on successful promotion than need. Where the .308 Bellm may fall a little short for elk, for example, the .358 Bellm fills the niche between the .308 Bellm and .444 Marlin rather well, and as do the other "Triad" cartridges, the .358 Bellm accomplishes this with common dies, and only the .358 Win FL die set is needed..... nothing more.

    Reloading Dies for .358 Bellm

    Selection of brand of dies has been narrowed down to Lyman as the best choice. RCBS dies, while they work fine, are priced quite high. Hornady dies are too short inside for the full length .444 Marlin case and will not work. It is doubtful Lee will work since their .308 Win dies are also too short for the corresponding .308 Bellm, but I have not tried Lee .358 Win dies that I recall and am not even certain Lee makes them. While Redding makes excellent dies, they, too, will be pretty pricey, but my objection to Redding is more in regard to their not sizing the web areas small enough to suit me. So unless you will also use a .444 Marlin size die to size the case webs, I would not recommend Redding. (Note that if you want to do the two die thing leaving case webs fire formed as explained in the "advanced" method on the Triad page, you can also use the smaller proportioned Lyman .358 Win size die in tandem with the Redding dies to accomplish the same thing for less money.)

    I supply Lyman .358 Win. FL die sets for $29, or you can order them from sources such as Midsouth Shooters Supply for less than $20 if you prefer to save some money on shipping by including the dies with other items from Midsouth.

    Not only are the Lyman .358 Win dies useable, I prefer them since they size smaller at the web and permit me to hold closer chamber tolerances in this part of the chamber. Lyman .358 Win dies work the best.

    Powder Selection.

    After thorough testing, Don Shearer established that H322 was clearly the best powder for .358 Bellm of all the powders tested. 4895 came in second best. You may find other combinations you like better, but the following is proven data you will do quite well with.

    Comments Regarding Bullets.

    For some reason, the test barrel did not like 220 gr. Speer bullets which was a disappointment since we had rather high hopes for this bullet. The Hornady bullets are generally excellent game bullets that also give good accuracy. And as will be noted in the other sets of "Triad" data, Hornady is Don Shearer's bullet of choice for general use, but "your mileage may vary." For long range big game work, the Nosler 225 gr. Ballistic Tip is outstanding. Don also conducted extensive expansion tests with the Nosler bullet and finds it a very good choice.
    je suis charlie

    It is better to live one day as a LION than a dozen days as a Sheep.

    Thomas Jefferson Quotations:
    "The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check