Original Keith?

[StuBach]

When I first got into casting it was due to my grandfather passing and leaving me all his reloading equipment including casting. Wife thought it would be fun for me and I have had a blast. Over the last year learning all this stuff.

In sorting his supplies I was thrilled to find many treasures but one got set aside as it was useless since it was missing its HB handle. Found it again today and with the info I now have I believe it is an Original Ideal Mold of the un-edited Keith design 429-422. From my readings this was Keith's second design and given the square lube groove and lack of vent lines I'm guessing it is a true original.

Can anyone confirm my suspicions?

Anyone have any data on the HB post dimensions for this bullet? Looking to make my own handles for plain base and HB.

[StuBach]

Any info on post dimensions for the 429-244 HP handle would also be appreciated as that handle is also missing.

[Nueces]

What a beauty! I have the same mould. Get thyself into conversation with member Buckshot, who can make a base pin for those blocks.

[gwpercle]

SWEET ! Those square bottomed lube groves would be an Elmer approved design.

[Forrest r]

Very nice!!!

Your mold:
The #1 on the top of the mold is the assembly #, the hb pin that came with that mold would of also been stamped with the same #1.
The 429-422 is the mold/cherry # and the #838 is the # of the cherry that was used to cut that mold.

Traditional hb pin for the 429422, note that the hb pin is simply the diameter of the bh pin hole and is nothing more than a round ball on the end. The top of that round hb pin ends at the top of the grease groove. It is designed so that the same shape bullet can be used but is lighter than the original parent 429421 design. 429422 ='s 235gr/429421 ='s 245gr
[IMG][/IMG]

A couple of 429-422's, the one on the left is a traditional style (1 assembly #) and the one on the right has 2 assembly #'s. The 2 #'s on the right mold are for a standard hb pin (#77) and a plain based pin #9.

[IMG][/IMG]

I've made several different hb pins for these molds testing to see what would be able to withstand higher pressures and the best accuracy. This is what I ended up with. The slope/step at the bullets base makes that area stronger/thicker & the longer length (just below the crimp groove) of the pin allows the bottom 2 drive bands to expand/seal/obturate better with a wider range of pressures/loads.

[IMG][/IMG]

You might consider looking at making different designs on hb pins for your mold. Flat/plain based, traditional round & something designed for extreme accuracy. Lyman used the round design in there 429422's, 358431's & of all things there hbwc for the 38spl/358395.

Back in the 90's a local custom mold maker used to make hb bullet molds that were designed for accuracy + obturation. The new s&w's back then were coming out with oversized cylinders. This hb design/pointed expands/seals the different cylinder sizes extremely well coupled with a fn design, they are very accurate. The hb pin/mold.
[IMG][/IMG]

The raphine hb bullets.
[IMG][/IMG]

Cramer used the same pointed design to make a hb bullet for the 1917 45acp pistols. They had bbl's/cylinders that were all over the place. The 45acp's were .451" and the 1917 revolvers were made from pieces and parts, .454" 45lc bbl's. Then throw in different mfg's/countries mfg them and the end result is a pistol that could be anywhere from .451 to .457 in the cylinders or bbl's. Cramer hb'd their 5f swc bullet to be used in the 1917's.

[IMG][/IMG]

The cramer 5f is a 185gr swc, the 5f hb version is 175gr.
[IMG][/IMG]

Currently all the Mihec custom hb molds use the same pointed hb design.

Anyway, just something to think about.

[StuBach]

Wow, holy cow lots of info. Thanks a ton.

I messed around with the 422 a little last night and created a makeshift pin using the back end of a drillbit. Really just wanted to try out the bullet to see if I could make one using this method.

My dad is going digging through Grandpa's stuff later this month in hopes of finding the original pins but not sure how hopeful I can be. In the meantime I plan to keep looking at options for replacements. Unfortunately with no lathe options are somewhat limited for now. Talked to a member who was able to make a really nice aftermarket pin but required modifying mold which I don't want to do.

I liked the spiked pin idea so I may emulate that when I can.

Also, I appreciated the information on the 1917s, I have a couple of these (all S&Ws) so having that information is great. Thanks.

[Lloyd Smale]

thanks that's a mold ive never seen before.

[Wayne Smith]

PM Buckshot. Send him the mold and he will make an original spec pin for you.

[StuBach]

Contacted Buckshot and his initial info is very informative and I really like his system. Only downside is he would need to permanently modify the mold which I'm looking to avoid for now. I have a couple questions to him to see if I can't still use his system with some additional work on my part to avoid the modification.

Also, Dad will be going through Grandpas remaining stuff later this month in search of the missing handles.

[square butte]

Eric at Hollow Point Mold Service can also help you out if you don't find what you like with Buckshot

[AnthonyB]

I have made those pins out of brass rod using a poor man's lathe (drill) and a file. The brass works well.
Tony

[Forrest r]

Contacted Buckshot and his initial info is very informative and I really like his system. Only downside is he would need to permanently modify the mold which I'm looking to avoid for now. I have a couple questions to him to see if I can't still use his system with some additional work on my part to avoid the modification.

Also, Dad will be going through Grandpas remaining stuff later this month in search of the missing handles.

If the other's that have been mentioned already can't help you out. PM me about making you some different pins.

[AnthonyB]

Also, talk to Buckshot again to make sure he understands all you need is a replacement pin. I don't understand why he would have to modify the mould to make a replacement pin.
Tony

[MT Gianni]

If you get a pin made make a flat pin also and you have an original 429421.

[StuBach]

If you get a pin made make a flat pin also and you have an original 429421.

I had actually had the same thought. I have decided, while waiting for another trip to Grandpas garage to search for the missing handles I'm going to try the poor man's lathe trick mentioned earlier and make a couple of test pins out of bar stock.

Once I have an idea of what type of hollow I want then I'll likely contact Buckshot or one of the others who have offered to help to make a nice brass version for a permanent solution.

Thank you for all the help.

The only question I still have but likely can't get an answer is what is the vintage of the mold shown above. Given the lack of vent grooves I know it's an early one of the Ideal molds so I'm not sure how close to the 1928 inception of the 429421/429422 this mold is. I also know sometime later Lyman/Ideal changed the lube groove to a rounded one which this is not which also lends to it being closer to original but maybe someone here can help with a rough vintage?

Or at least when Ideal started cutting vent lines? I've read it was in the 30's but I've also read it was in the 50's.

[StuBach]

First attempt

[MT Gianni]

The only question I still have but likely can't get an answer is what is the vintage of the mold shown above. Given the lack of vent grooves I know it's an early one of the Ideal molds so I'm not sure how close to the 1928 inception of the 429421/429422 this mold is. I also know sometime later Lyman/Ideal changed the lube groove to a rounded one which this is not which also lends to it being closer to original but maybe someone here can help with a rough vintage?

Or at least when Ideal started cutting vent lines? I've read it was in the 30's but I've also read it was in the 50's.

I have no idea when your mold was made. i have unvented ideal molds of designs introduced in the 50's.

[waco]

That is pretty darn cool right there!

[StuBach]

I have no idea when your mold was made. i have unvented ideal molds of designs introduced in the 50's.

Thanks for the input. I know mine predates 1955 cause that's the last year it's original owner did anything with handgun casting (my Grandpa's last casting were done December 1955, good notes on his castings and loads). All of the rest of my molds have vent lines so I'm guessing the vent lines were made standard sometime in the early 50s?

At this point I'm just enjoying piecing the history together. I inherited all these molds and equipment early last year and now have the bug and, like with my firearms, I feel new is nice but quality vintage is better (favorite guns all predate 1975).

[TXGunNut]

That is pretty darn cool right there!

Agreed! Looking forward to hearing more about Grandpa's stash, I think OP has opened a time capsule of sorts. I like my modern loading and casting equipment but I have a few older pieces that have a special feel about them. I guess that's why I enjoy casting with my Lyman's now and then.