The Swiss Vetterli

[TKG]

Was this cartridge loaded with black powder ? Was the only clambering in .41 caliber for the Swiss Rifle. Was it a bottle-neck cartridge. I have some cartridges I'm trying to ID and believe them to be the Swiss ammo. The cases look to be copper or copper coated. Thanks for any info. TKG

[salpal48]

A lot Of the 41 swiss rimfire was a copper case. , also the Remington rim fire was copper.
. The swiss should Have a Cross in the center of the rim. Remington will have a U . There was also an Italian Co. . That made ammo in the late 60-70"s . These were a Off color Brass case. I do not recall the Headstanp.
all 41 swiss was bottle case and some were Paper patched

[upnorthwis]

Give us some dimensions and someone here will figure out what they are. A friend of mine was buying cartridges he thought were .43 Mauser but they didn't fit his 71/84. I put the dim's on here and got an answer the next day. Turned out they were 11mm Austrian Mannlicher.

[TKG]

I will check in tomorrow. I'm sure what I have is the original ammo. Head stamp is H. Copper casing, rim fire.

[salpal48]

On the headstamps
H= winchester
U = remington
C= caverhill
US= united states cartridge co
A= ?
If you post a Photo
That would be Helpful
Sal

[TKG]

Hey Salpal48, I can't do picture posting but I do have pictures I can e-mail to someone if they will post them here. They would be free pictures for anyone to use if they like. Thanks TKG

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Hey Salpal48, I can't do picture posting but I do have pictures I can e-mail to someone if they will post them here. They would be free pictures for anyone to use igf they like. Thanks TKG

It is difficlt, and unsafe, to name cartridges on the basis of description, without dimensions and pictures. If you start a reply and click on "go advanced", you will come to a "manage attachments" tab which lets you add pictures from your computer. First you have to browse for the picture, download it your folder on this website, then select and drag it into the smaller panel for adding them to your post, then click on the button to do so. That is a lot of stages, unfortunately. Winchester probably aren't the only way a cartridge can be headstamped "H", but it is most likely the origin of this one. The Swiss and to a lesser extent Italian Vetterlis were popular as cheap hunting rifles for a while, and most of the big cartridge companies made at least the Swiss round.


The Swiss one was normally rimfire, although centrefire cartridges could have been made for converted rifles. They both have about the same head diameters,, .540in. with a rim of about .630, and while their lengths are in theory 38mm. (for the Swiss) and 47mm., they may not conform closely to that. I don't know of any Amererican rimfire that comes close to these diameters without being considerably shorter.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Ah, I found it in my Winchester catalogue of 1899. Note that this has an outside lubed bullet of diameter close to the case neck. "Cartridges of the World" and other sources give the neck diameter for both Vettelie as .437in., bullet diameter for the Italian as .430 and for the Italian as .415in.



I think they have heard the Swiss diameter under the rather ample patching, which the Swiss extended over the case-neck, and the effective total bullet diameters were about the same. That isn't to say that .437 is perfectly matched, by modern standards, to the bore diameter. The reference books make the same mistake with my two Swiss 1889 Schmidt-Rubins in 7.5x53.5, delightful rifles with about the longest manual action which has ever existed, which have good bore diameter for the same .308 bullet as the later Schmidt-Rubins, but a throat and chamber neck which would encourage it to topple. What they have is a special throat and bullet, designed to swage down a patched lead bullet amounting to about .320in. in all.

[TKG]

Trying to post pictures for the 41 Swiss Cartridge.

[TKG]

Hope this sheds some light on the subject of the cartridge in question. Thanks B-in Scotland for your help.

[TXGunNut]

Nice pics!

[Ballistics in Scotland]

I have a copy of a photograph of chamber casts for all the main Swiss bolt action rifles, which I don't feel entitled to post publicly, as it was taken and posted long ago by parashooter on the excellent www.swissrifles.com site. He measured the chamber neck at .454 front and .458 where it joins the shoulder. The land diameter was .410 and the groove diameter .430, with a throat which looks long for the bullet. So the idea of a bullet .415in. overall seems pretty dead.

The people who designed these cartridges could remember the days when you tore a cartridge open and poured the contents down the barrel. The matching of cartridge and chamber necks wasn't well understood. But my Swiss 1889s, and every other I have heard of being measured, conformed very closely to a configuration we might consider less than optimum. I think it is unlikely that .410-.430 is unusual.