Pedersoli .45-70 questions on the rifle & reloading

[roscoe]

Due to a couple of shoulder surgeries, I think I would be a little concerned with shooting a .45-70 with a full load. I have seen some video on some shooters and what they are shooting is absolutely brutal. I've been shooting my Ruger #1 in .223 and haven't had any issues. However, it is a .223 and I want a .45-70. I have some questions on the Pedersoli as well as the caliber. I've seen Buffalo Arms has some shoulder pads that look like they could help on the recoil. Anyone tried one of these?

1. Pedersoli - I read on the forum here where one poster had problems with his trigger set falling out? I haven't seen this issue on any other sights I have been to. It appears the Pedersoli is highly rated and I haven't seen really any other issues other than the one mentioned. Is there anything I should be aware? I plan on buying new with a budget around 2K. I would buy a used one, but for this kind of money, I want to see it in my hands for inspection before the purchase.

a. Stock - I love the looks of the straight stock, but I think the shotgun style stock with the pistol grip would be more to my liking. I have held some straight stocks and find them a little uncomfortable in relation to the finger to the trigger. Is the straight stock just something I would have to get use to? Other than appearance, what are your thoughts of the two stock?

b. Forearm - Most shooters I have seen using shooting stick, rest the barrel just in front of the forearm. Some other shooters ring the barrel and find the dead spot and support the barrel there. Is the rifle sensitive on the forearm as the Ruger #1 is notoriously known for?

2. .45-70 - I have been reloading since 1967 with no breaks. However, I have never reloaded anything in black powder. Never held one let alone shot one. I would rather shoot smokeless powder and this is where my questions come in.

a. I know some people really shoot very long distances, but my shooting would be 200 to 300 yards at the most. Would I be able to develope a load that would be accurate at these distances, but not mess up my shoulder? Is there a particular weight bullet and nose style that is preferred at these distances? My shoulder is okay now and haven't had any other issues in several years.

b. Fillers - This appears to be a very big debate when using smokeless powder. Some say always use it while others never use it and say it's not needed. An email answered from Pedersoli tells me smokeless powder can be used as long as the PSI does not exceed 29,000, but they did not address the filler question. What are the current thoughts and reasoning behind using a filler?

c. Paper Patch Bullets - Does anyone use paper patch bullets with smokeless powder? Is there any plus or minus for using a paper patch bullet over a greaser?

f. Could anyone list some forums that are dedicated to the Sharps style rifle?


This turned out to be much longer than anticipated. Thanks for your help.

[NSB]

I've owned several Pedersoli Sharps rifles. I never liked the looks of the straight stock but after owning one I didn't find it any more difficult to shoot than the pistol grips ones I had. Don't rest it on the barrel to shoot. I have no idea why anyone would even try doing that if shooting the gun for groups. Find a balance point somewhere on the forend to find the sweet spot. Almost all my loads are easy on the shoulder. I keep everything around 1400-1500fps and it's pretty tame with the weight of the gun and that velocity with 400+ grain bullets. It's a pretty heavy gun. There's a big arc in the bullet but with good sights and known distances you can easily shoot very, very good groups out to 200-300 yards. The first one I ever shot was at a shoot out of state. One of the people at the host club was letting everyone shoot three shots for a buck at 250 yards off hand. He has a 24"x24" gong set up at that distance. I hit it five out of six times and was hooked on these guns (it was a three gun shoot and no one was using this type of gun....it was just for fun). I've owned several since then. You'll never need fillers with this gun using smokeless powders and unless you spend the time learning about them, you can ring your barrel. I've tried them many times (properly) and have found no accuracy benefit with the best loads I've tried. Sorry, can't help at all with paper patching, I don't do it. The Pedersoli Sharps replicas are very, very accurate rifles and have some of the best barrels available at any price. The triggers are also excellent. You can get a very good one for your price point. Visit assra.com for like minded people (American Single Shot Rifle Association . com). That's all they do there.

[rockrat]

I have Pedersoli Sharps. Only one I had problem with, was a piece of the stock, inside the lock, broke off and jammed the lock. Took it apart and found the green pea size piece of wood and shook it out and put back together, fine since then. I don't like straight stocks, pistol grip feels better.
I shoot smokeless in mine, 5744 to be exact. I do load with a filler (many will gasp in horror), and found groups shrank to about half of the no filler groups in my Trapdoor. Not quite such a difference in the Pedersoli. I shoot a 420gr plain base boolit. I dump the powder, seat a .030" card wad on top, fill with grits to the point when I seat the boolit, it compresses the grits about 1/10". Does smell like burnt cereal when I shoot. Did pick up a paper patch money boolit mould that I am going to shoot holy black with and ordered a Lee 500gr to try with smokeless. Might try the paper patch with smokeless too.
I saw a used Pedersoli last week at a gunshop. 34"bbl oct/round, pewter cap on fore-end, shotgun butt with sights. They also had a Cimmaron for about $350 more, same barrel setup, but with better sights and a killer blue job. If I didn't have a Pedersoli 45-70 already, one of those would have followed me home. The cheaper one was $1,100.
I have had one shoulder surgery but the 45-70 in the Sharps that I shoot, I can shoot all day just fine. Velocities are probably 1375fps or so.

Hope this helps

[varsity07840]

I have a Pedersoli Gemmer Sharps .45-70 that I consider to be top shelf in workmanship and
accuracy with any BP load I have run through it. If I was to own a Sporter, I'd go with a No. 1 which has the pistol grip, with a shotgun butt plate. My Pedersoli has a 1" straight barrel that makes the rifle rather heavy, but the recoil is still stiff off the bench if you're shooting it a lot in a session with typical loads. You might want to consider a .40-65 if recoil is an issue, but you'll have a tough time finding one by Pedersoli. The only smokeless ammo I have tried in any of my .45-70s is cowboy action ammo just to get rifle on the paper before going to my hand loaded BP.
I found the recoil to be mild compared to my BP loads. Try the forum on www.shilohrfile.com
for info, although it is mostly geared to BP. Also, try www.trapdoorcollector.com and use their forum to search for carbine loads that used 55 grains of powder instead of 70.

[Don McDowell]

[QUOTE]b. Forearm - Most shooters I have seen using shooting stick, rest the barrel just in front of the forearm. Some other shooters ring the barrel and find the dead spot and support the barrel there. Is the rifle sensitive on the forearm as the Ruger #1 is notoriously known for
The sharps rifles do best if the forearm has a small gap between the forearm and action, and the relief in the forearm for the lever spring doesn't rub the spring or block. When resting on the crossticks many folks rest just in front of the forearm on the barrel or about 4 inches back from the muzzle.

2. .45-70 - I have been reloading since 1967 with no breaks. However, I have never reloaded anything in black powder. Never held one let alone shot one. I would rather shoot smokeless powder and this is where my questions come in.

a. I know some people really shoot very long distances, but my shooting would be 200 to 300 yards at the most. Would I be able to develope a load that would be accurate at these distances, but not mess up my shoulder? Is there a particular weight bullet and nose style that is preferred at these distances? My shoulder is okay now and haven't had any other issues in several years.

b. Fillers - This appears to be a very big debate when using smokeless powder. Some say always use it while others never use it and say it's not needed. An email answered from Pedersoli tells me smokeless powder can be used as long as the PSI does not exceed 29,000, but they did not address the filler question. What are the current thoughts and reasoning behind using a filler?

5744 is known for it's accuracy and duplicating blackpowder velocity. No wads or fillers should be used. 1200 fps or there about is all you need with 500ish gr. bullets and 1350 or so with the 405's. The recoil is easily tolerated.
/QUOTE]

[country gent]

I have a pendersoli sharps long range model in 45-70. It has the pistol grip stock and scnabel foreend. I do shoot strictly BP loads from it along with several other rifles. (CPA 40-65 CSharps arms Hepburn 45-90 ) Loading black powder isnt much diffrent than smokeless other than a few added steps needed. Black powder loading is basically volumne based. You dont want any air space in the case and a wad to protect the soft base of the bullet. Start with a charge that fills the case to the base of the bullet with the wad added. work up in 2 grn increments from there adding powder and compression ( some powders like more compression than others) Use a die to compress powder not the bullet ( compression can damage bases or bend distort soft lead bullets) This is one of the added steps. Use a lighter seating tension also due to soft bullets. For long range big heavy long bullets are needed. I shoot from 500 grns to 550 grns in 45 cal rifles. One trick for lighter loads is to remove powder and replace volumne with cream of wheat. If you load is 65 grns of 2f bp and you want a plinking load of 50 grns take 15 grns of bp and make a volumne dipper for it. Then use the dipper to drop cream of wheat into case. In this you want a wad over powder the cream of wheat, a thin wad and then bullet. As to placement on cross sticks some place rifle on forearm some on barrel its personal choice and a dead spot can be found for barrel rest. I rest about 4"-6" back from muzzle as this is the dead node and it rides the sticks much better for me. Its wup to you but Im much steadier this way than the forearm rest is. ( I can have run 8 out of 10 rams at 500 yds resting on the barrel like this). A good book for information Is Randolph S Wrights Loading and shooting the paper patched bullet a beginners guide. WHile it deals with paper patched bullets the techniques are the same for grease grooved bullets. For 200-300 yds shooting anything 405 grns and over should work. Barrel twist is going to help determine this also. A lyman 457125 ( 510 grn roundnose) cast from 20-1 should be very accurate for a grease grooved bullet. The Lyman 535 grn postell is a good shooter and performs well at long range. I have the buffalo arms recoil pad and it does help ( when I remeber to put it on) But I find I lose the sense of the rifles placement in the shoulder with it.

[montana_charlie]

Stock - I love the looks of the straight stock, but I think the shotgun style stock with the pistol grip would be more to my liking. I have held some straight stocks and find them a little uncomfortable in relation to the finger to the trigger.

I've owned several Pedersoli Sharps rifles. I never liked the looks of the straight stock but after owning one I didn't find it any more difficult to shoot than the pistol grips ones I had..

I have Pedersoli Sharps.
I don't like straight stocks, pistol grip feels better.

I picked up a Sharps at a gun show, and that was the fist time I held one. It had a shotgun butt with the pistol grip, and even my long finger couldn't reach the front trigger if my palm was in full contact with the grip.

It was two more years before I bought a rifle, and it had a straight grip. When I came to thinking I wanted a pistol grip, I made an 'add-on' pistol grip and installed it. The advantage is, you can place it where it fits your hand best.
Mine is walnut, while the classic ones are ebony.

[TCLouis]

10.5 grains of Unique beind a 325 grain Boolit will give you 1100 fps and LITTLE recoil . . .

Least ways that is what I have heard

[roscoe]

I picked up a Sharps at a gun show, and that was the fist time I held one. It had a shotgun butt with the pistol grip, and even my long finger couldn't reach the front trigger if my palm was in full contact with the grip.

It was two more years before I bought a rifle, and it had a straight grip. When I came to thinking I wanted a pistol grip, I made an 'add-on' pistol grip and installed it. The advantage is, you can place it where it fits your hand best.
Mine is walnut, while the classic ones are ebony.

Very clever idea. How did you attach it to the straight stock?

[marlinman93]

I don't own a Sharps style single shot, but shoot Ballards, Rolling Blocks, and Hepburns in .45-70. From years of overhead work, my shoulders are not great, so I don't care for recoil. I use two different weight bullets, but use the same charge with either. A 390 grain round nose, and a 300 grain SWC, both with 12.0 grains of Unique. Either will take you 2 or 3 times the distance you plan to shoot, and not beat up the shoulder doing it.
I prefer pistol grip stocks aesthetically, and for feel, but don't have a problem with a straight grip either.

[roscoe]

I don't own a Sharps style single shot, but shoot Ballards, Rolling Blocks, and Hepburns in .45-70. From years of overhead work, my shoulders are not great, so I don't care for recoil. I use two different weight bullets, but use the same charge with either. A 390 grain round nose, and a 300 grain SWC, both with 12.0 grains of Unique. Either will take you 2 or 3 times the distance you plan to shoot, and not beat up the shoulder doing it.
I prefer pistol grip stocks aesthetically, and for feel, but don't have a problem with a straight grip either.

Do you use a filler?

[montana_charlie]

Very clever idea. How did you attach it to the straight stock?

I'm not the clever one. The accessory dates from the 1800's.

There is a steel slug epoxy bedded in the wooden grip, and it is drilled and tapped for a amall screw.
There is a suitable hole drilled through the steel trigger bar.
A screw with the head on top of the trigger bar goes down into the slug in the grip so it is held tight to the trigger bar.
A minor amount of bedding of the grip to the trigger bar face also keeps it (mine) from twisting. Some people use the rear stock screw in tandem with the hidden one to prevent twist.

[Bad Ass Wallace]

I own 5 Pedersoli Sharps and don't use anything but black powder in them

Top to bottom - 45/90, 45/70, 50/70, 50/90 and 40/65

[marlinman93]

Do you use a filler?

No, and I don't use fillers in any loads I do.

[Michael J. Spangler]

Subscribed for updates. I should have a pedersoli in a couple of days.

[Jim_P]

I also have the Pedersoli Sharps Long Range in 45/70. Love that gun. I've had several friends shoot it and the are instantly in love with it as well. Added the medium Soule sight. It's a beaut as well.

Shoots like a dream, but have only had it to 200 yards. I shoot both BP and 5744 in it. Pedersoli 45/70's are one of the few the manufacturer will say modern smokeless is also OK in the gun. I cast and have the Lyman 405, 489 and 500 Gr moulds. I only shoot cast boolits and they are lubed with Lyman Moly lube.

When I load BP, I also place a fiber wad between the charge and boolit, also only a light crimp is used.

I use RCBS Cowboy dies to load. Sized a bit different than normal dies. Up to you. Never had a failure or pressure sign issue.

When I'm at the range shooting mine it ALWAYS draws a few lookers and I ALWAYS offer to allow them to take a shot. You'd be surprised how many people are drawn to rifles like this and if they shoot a BP load, the cloud of smoke lets them know they've shot something. That and the recoil from those big 500 Grain Boolits!

The Pedersoli craftsmanship is bar none. Sure, you can pay twice as much for a C. Sharp or others, but you'll wait and wait and it won't be twice the craftsmanship. Pedersoli has several YouTube videos on how they make their stocks, barrels, etc. Give them a look. Well worth the view for anyone, but if considering a Pedersoli, should be a requirement.

Here's mine. Bluing is so deep and even it looks like silver in the picture:

[Michael J. Spangler]

I also have the Pedersoli Sharps Long Range in 45/70. Love that gun. I've had several friends shoot it and the are instantly in love with it as well. Added the medium Soule sight. It's a beaut as well.

Shoots like a dream, but have only had it to 200 yards. I shoot both BP and 5744 in it. Pedersoli 45/70's are one of the few the manufacturer will say modern smokeless is also OK in the gun. I cast and have the Lyman 405, 489 and 500 Gr moulds. I only shoot cast boolits and they are lubed with Lyman Moly lube.

When I load BP, I also place a fiber wad between the charge and boolit, also only a light crimp is used.

I use RCBS Cowboy dies to load. Sized a bit different than normal dies. Up to you. Never had a failure or pressure sign issue.

When I'm at the range shooting mine it ALWAYS draws a few lookers and I ALWAYS offer to allow them to take a shot. You'd be surprised how many people are drawn to rifles like this and if they shoot a BP load, the cloud of smoke lets them know they've shot something. That and the recoil from those big 500 Grain Boolits!

The Pedersoli craftsmanship is bar none. Sure, you can pay twice as much for a C. Sharp or others, but you'll wait and wait and it won't be twice the craftsmanship. Pedersoli has several YouTube videos on how they make their stocks, barrels, etc. Give them a look. Well worth the view for anyone, but if considering a Pedersoli, should be a requirement.

Here's mine. Bluing is so deep and even it looks like silver in the picture:

I just traded for the same rifle today.
Amazing beautiful gun.

Shot a couple loads with 12 grains of unique today just to say I shot it.
I can't wait to get to the range when the sun is up so I can lob some out at a decent range.

[griffiga]

I have both Pedersoli Sharps rifles and carbines and I find that, especially in the rifle that weighs 10-11 pounds, standard black powder velocity loads even with 500 grain bullets don't recoil that much. The 7 pound carbine is felt a bit more, but I usually stoke them with a bit less powder and the 405 grain bullet which ends up feeling about the same as the rifle.

[rfd]

Due to a couple of shoulder surgeries, I think I would be a little concerned with shooting a .45-70 with a full load. I have seen some video on some shooters and what they are shooting is absolutely brutal. I've been shooting my Ruger #1 in .223 and haven't had any issues. However, it is a .223 and I want a .45-70. I have some questions on the Pedersoli as well as the caliber. I've seen Buffalo Arms has some shoulder pads that look like they could help on the recoil. Anyone tried one of these?

i have a chronic "frozen right shoulder" condition and i use kick killer butt pads on all my .45-70 rifles and have NO problem with black powder cartridges and bullets in the 535 grain range. can shoot all day, zero issues. a good stock recoil pad is a life saver for me.

1. Pedersoli - I read on the forum here where one poster had problems with his trigger set falling out? I haven't seen this issue on any other sights I have been to. It appears the Pedersoli is highly rated and I haven't seen really any other issues other than the one mentioned. Is there anything I should be aware? I plan on buying new with a budget around 2K. I would buy a used one, but for this kind of money, I want to see it in my hands for inspection before the purchase.

i have owned and shot MANY pedersoli rifles in 45-70 and 40-65 caliber. i think they're fine rifles and a great value. others will disagree and say that only american bred 19th century replica rifles are worth buying. i think they're very wrong. to each their own.

a. Stock - I love the looks of the straight stock, but I think the shotgun style stock with the pistol grip would be more to my liking. I have held some straight stocks and find them a little uncomfortable in relation to the finger to the trigger. Is the straight stock just something I would have to get use to? Other than appearance, what are your thoughts of the two stock?

i shoot both pistol and straight stock, roller and faller. i like both. subjective personal peference abounds.



b. Forearm - Most shooters I have seen using shooting stick, rest the barrel just in front of the forearm. Some other shooters ring the barrel and find the dead spot and support the barrel there. Is the rifle sensitive on the forearm as the Ruger #1 is notoriously known for?

need to find the barrels harmonic sweet spot, which is typically somewhere around 4-8 inches off the muzzle. experiment.

2. .45-70 - I have been reloading since 1967 with no breaks. However, I have never reloaded anything in black powder. Never held one let alone shot one. I would rather shoot smokeless powder and this is where my questions come in.

a. I know some people really shoot very long distances, but my shooting would be 200 to 300 yards at the most. Would I be able to develope a load that would be accurate at these distances, but not mess up my shoulder? Is there a particular weight bullet and nose style that is preferred at these distances? My shoulder is okay now and haven't had any other issues in several years.

yes. use AA5744 smokeless powder, NO FILLERS or WADS. - but you would be LOTS better off with real black powder. lighter bullets equate to less recoil. lyman's 457193 drops around 415 grains and some folks like that for chicken silhouettes @ 200 meters.

"butt" seriously, just use a GOOD butt stock recoil pad and you'll be just fine with "full house" black powder loads.

b. Fillers - This appears to be a very big debate when using smokeless powder. Some say always use it while others never use it and say it's not needed. An email answered from Pedersoli tells me smokeless powder can be used as long as the PSI does not exceed 29,000, but they did not address the filler question. What are the current thoughts and reasoning behind using a filler?

big debate that's ended with fillers/wads and double base powders banned from this year's quigley match. having done so in the past, these dayze i would NEVER use fillers/wads with any smokeless powders, period.

...........

This turned out to be much longer than anticipated. Thanks for your help.

this may be of some help to you with regards to BPCR ...

http://www.buffalorifles.org/bpcr.html