Cast boolits for the 30-40 Springfield Krag

[craig61a]

I have 2 Krags, One is a safe queen which I haven't got around to shooting yet, and a 'sporterized' Krag. I shot the sporterized Krag about a year ago with a RCBS 30-180 FN over 35 gr. of H380 (from LASC Fryxell article) and got satisfactory results.

I recently got back into playing with loads and etc. for this and I recrowned the muzzle the other day (it was looking kind of questionable in some spots). I'm looking at some different powders and am also considering a NOE 311407 sized to .311. The advantage of this boolit is that it doesn't get a little ding on the nose when run through the mag as the 30-180 does.

For powders I'm currently looking at H4198 and 5744. Just curious what others are using as far as boolits and powders go.

[gnoahhh]

God, over 45 years of Krag shooting I've used about every powder and bullet weight known to mankind. Generally I find a load of around 18 grains 4759, 2400, or 4227 and a 180 grain cast bullet will tell you whether the gun will shoot or not. A 155 grain plain base and 6-8 grains of Bullseye/Red Dot/Clays is a great tin can plinking load. My favorite hunting load is with the 210 grain #311284 and 40 grains 4350.

[Char-Gar]

I have had considerable experience with 311407 Mod. as produced by NOE and Lee (custom back in the day). It is a good bullet for the Krag rifle, but I would advise you to size it at least .312 and even .313 if your rifle's chamber will accept bullets that large. The throat will take large bullets but the neck area of some chambers won't take rounds with bullets this large. Of course the case neck can always be turned down a few thousands to accept larger bullets in the chamber. The Krag rifle has quite large throats and better accuracy will come from bigger bullets to fill the throat.

For bullet in the 160 to 210 grain range, I use 16/2400 for a mild very accurate load and 50/WC872 for full snort load of 1,900 to 2,000 fps depending on the barrel and the bullet.

[Wolfer]

When I got my Krag the only suitable 30 mold I had is the 311041. Nothing has changed.

For starters I just put 16 gr of 2400 behind it. Wow! There's a reason this is called the load. Bumped it up to 17 gr to hunt with. Could no doubt go faster but haven't seen the need. The one deer I shot with it went 10 ft before collapsing.

They have to be chambered rather briskly or they will hang up.

I also have a 31108 that I intend to shoot in this gun with clays if I ever get around to it.

This crow was in the field about 75 yds from the house. Opened the window and took a rest off the kitchen table. Targets of opportunity are where you find them.

[Clay M]

I will experiment with the 1898 Krag soon . The powders I am going to try are 5744, SR 4759,and Rel 7
I think the RCBS 180 gr will work well in the 95.I believe I will need a bigger diameter bullet for the 98.

[Wolfer]

My 98 Springfield Krag was made in 1898 according to the serial #. My mold drops at .309 and that's what I size to.

A bigger boolit might shoot better but it would take a better shooter than me to find out.

[Char-Gar]

I really don't like these kinds of threads. I only responded to the thread because the OP asked about NOE 311407 which is a bullet I designed and have shot extensively in a number of 30 caliber rifles including 4 Krag rifles.

i killed my first deer with a Krag in 1960 and have shot them extensively for 55 years with many thousands of cast bullets. I have three now with original barrels. They run .308, .3095 and .312 in the groove. All of them turn in their best accuracy with .313 cast bullets. This does not mean they are inaccurate with small bullets, but in all of my rifles ..313 beats .310 and .311 by 1/2 to 1 MOA at 100 yards and beyond. Yes, I can shoot a rifle good enough to tell the difference and I have repeated this dozens of times so I know it is not a fluke.

everybody has their own experience but this is mine based on deep experience with the Krag rifle and there you have it.

[lotech]

I've had a number of Krags over the years, but the only .30-40 I've kept has been a well-used Ruger #3. I found the RCBS 30-180 FN to be quite accurate in many .30 caliber rifles, including the Krags. My old notes indicate Reloder 7, 5744, SR 4759, and Varget as being the best powders for accuracy. Surprisingly, H4895 was not among them. I can't recall trying H380 with cast bullets.

[craig61a]

I have had considerable experience with 311407 Mod. as produced by NOE and Lee (custom back in the day). It is a good bullet for the Krag rifle, but I would advise you to size it at least .312 and even .313 if your rifle's chamber will accept bullets that large. The throat will take large bullets but the neck area of some chambers won't take rounds with bullets this large. Of course the case neck can always be turned down a few thousands to accept larger bullets in the chamber. The Krag rifle has quite large throats and better accuracy will come from bigger bullets to fill the throat.

For bullet in the 160 to 210 grain range, I use 16/2400 for a mild very accurate load and 50/WC872 for full snort load of 1,900 to 2,000 fps depending on the barrel and the bullet.

Well I started out with the 30-180 sized .310, and have moved that up to .311, so I'm going with .311 on the 311407 for this round. I can always go up if I don't get great results with that.

[Char-Gar]

Well I started out with the 30-180 sized .310, and have moved that up to .311, so I'm going with .311 on the 311407 for this round. I can always go up if I don't get great results with that.

This bullet will cast out at .314 with ACWW and about .302 on the top two bands. So there is plenty of room to go larger is you wish. Be aware that these narrow multi-groove Loverin type bullets can close down the lube grooves is sized to much. To avoid this, lube them first and then size them.

The original 311407 was a Loverin design for Lyman. People had great luck with Lyman/Lovern 311467 and some wanted one with a flat nose for use in tubular magazines. So Loverin shaved the nose of 311467 flat, loosing about 5 grains of bullet weight, and hence 311407 was bore.

The original order for this bullet was done by Lee. We had to shave one groove off the bullet body otherwise the original design was to long for the Lee blocks. While at it, the two two bands were made small enough to ride on top the lands. I called if 311407 Mod (modified) because of these two deviations from the original design.

This has proven to be a very good design and NOI sells allot of them. However, there are others just as good. It has proven to be very good in 30-30 rifles which have almost no leade/free bore/throat. Ranch Dog has produced another good bullet that works in these short throat rifles. I like them both.

Bore riding bullets give great accuracy, but depend on perfect fit of the nose to the lands as well as the body to the throat to deliver the good accuracy. Being mostly body, the Loverin based designs don't need good fit on the lands to give good accuracy.

Be aware that Krag rifles can have barrel grooves that run from .308 up to .314, with .3095 being the most common. Springfield Aresnal during the black powder days were not to concern about holding the barrel groove specs tight as the big push on soft lead cause the bullets to expand to fit the grooves. But with smokeless powder and jacketed bullets that would not work any more, and it took Springfield a time to break the code. Harry Pope the famous barrel maker was brought in to help them build rifles for the Palma Match and old Harry thrw a conniption fit about their loose barrel making specs. That was when Springfield "got with the program. However whatever the barrel groove, the throat/leade/ball seat remained the same, i.e. large, so bullet sized to fit the throat will shot well in any Krag barrel.

Best of luck....Krag rifles have a high cool factor.

[tdoyka]

my krag just luvs the 165gr (dropped at 173gr) ranch dog with 25.5gr of h4198. i have also tried varget and rel7. mine was made in 1903 and the bore size is .3085".

[Clay M]

I have owned two original Win 95's,a Ruger #3 and a Sharps 74 in the Krag. Right now I have a Browning 95,and the Springfield I bought back in 70.
I have always like the Krag,and feel like it is one of the better bottleneck rounds for cast bullets.
I have the RCBS 180 and several Lyman molds.
I am studying the different mold designs ,but haven't decided what I want yet.
I have always had good luck with a bore riding nose,but as Charles pointed out,they have to fit perfectly in order to get the best accuracy.
I don't plan to hunt with it ,so it will probably be a 200-220 gr round nose.

[lotech]

I've tried many cast bullets in several .30-40 rifles over the past few decades. My most accurate .30-40 has been a Ruger #3 and the best bullet I have found so far is the Lyman #314299, cast of WW and sized at .311". Weight is about 208-210 grs. I had one cavity of my mould modified as a hollowpoint; it shoots as well as the solid version.

I've long since gotten rid of my Springfield .30-40s and can't remember whether I tried this bullet in any of them. Nevertheless, I don't see why it wouldn't shoot accurately in Krags.

[Clay M]

I've tried many cast bullets in several .30-40 rifles over the past few decades. My most accurate .30-40 has been a Ruger #3 and the best bullet I have found so far is the Lyman #314299, cast of WW and sized at .311". Weight is about 208-210 grs. I had one cavity of my mould modified as a hollowpoint; it shoots as well as the solid version.

I've long since gotten rid of my Springfield .30-40s and can't remember whether I tried this bullet in any of them. Nevertheless, I don't see why it wouldn't shoot accurately in Krags.

I have the 314299 ,and I will try it before I buy anything else.

[craig61a]

I have a few other molds that would drop bullets that would be appropriate, but I want to stick with the flat point as I may just take this Krag hunting. The 311407 does drop larger, so that's a plus as if I add more lead to the mix, I'll still have enough size.

As far as the history, I have a copy of the Poyer book, and have read most of it.

Just interested in seeing what others are doing...

[Dan Cash]

My .30-40 is a 1900 vintage 1895 Winchester. I feed it an accurate 31-215 lg that drops at .312, is sized to .304 without gas check and paper patched to.312. A suitable charge of R19 sends it on its way at 2200fps and as such, is a real deer killer.

[craig61a]

The bore on this particular Krag slugs approximately .301 X .309. Shot it yesterday with the 30-180 over 35 gr. H380. Groups were 2.5 inches or so at 50 yards.

I'm working up loads for the 311407 with 5744 and H4198. The H380 was a bit stout, and didn't give me the accuracy I wanted. Rather than reduce that powder, I'm looking to something else. I've had good results with H4198 in other chamberings.

[Char-Gar]

The bore on this particular Krag slugs approximately .301 X .309. Shot it yesterday with the 30-180 over 35 gr. H380. Groups were 2.5 inches or so at 50 yards.

I'm working up loads for the 311407 with 5744 and H4198. The H380 was a bit stout, and didn't give me the accuracy I wanted. Rather than reduce that powder, I'm looking to something else. I've had good results with H4198 in other chamberings.

A krag rifle is a decent barrel and THE RIGHT cast bullet load will do far better than 5 MOA. They will give you 1 to 1.25" fifty five yard groups. i.e. half or less what you are getting now.

On the mechanical side, I can offer only two suggestions;

1. Make certain the barrel is cleaned of old metal fouling. These old Krags can have large amounts in metal fouling in the barrel, some of it going back well over 100 years.

2. The Krag rifle has no recoil lug to bear on the wood, save the back of the magazine box. There needs to be full contact between the wood and the back of the magazine box. If there is some play there, the metal will move around in the wood when fired. If there is play, it can be fixed with shims or glas bedding.

[Scharfschuetze]

While not a flat point boolit as you prefer for hunting, I have had good accuracy with the 314299 Lyman design. While SR 4759 is my go to powder for 30 calibre military calibres, my Krag shoots best with 5744 which I note that you also have. Let me add that with the 5744 powder, my barrel heats up very fast, as fast as shooting jacketed bullets. I guess it's the double base formula of 5744 that does that. As a result, when spring arrives, I'll probably try other powders that don't burn as hot. 4198 and 3031 will be in the queue.

[Shiloh]

314299 sized at .312

Shiloh