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Thread: Why powder coat?

  1. #41
    Boolit Master

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    I really don't understand why any one is upset about with Dragonheart's statement, "My Ransom rest testing of PC bullets indicates accuracy equal to jacketed bullets."

    I have an older Smith & Wesson Model 29-3 .44 Magnum with .433" throats that wont shoot .429-430" jacketed bullets worth spit.

    My mold drops 44 boolits at .431", so I PC, gain some diameter, size to .433", and it is a tack driver. The PC boolit not only shoots as good, it shoots better than any jacketed bullet I can find for this revolver. Same goes for any good cast boolits and regular loob properly fitted to a revolver.

    Same with the older .45 Colt SAA's with .456-.457" throats. See how well a .451" jacketed shoots compared to a good cast boolit with loob or a PC boolit properly.

    I have a Winchester 1894AE 38/55 26" barrel, with a .379" bore. Jacketed Winchester 38/55 ammo uses .377" jacketed bullets, they only shoot fair in this rifle. I have an Accurate Mold from Tom, PC the boolit, size to .381" That puts 5 shots into 2" or less @ 100 yards with iron sights. The Winchester factory jacketed ammo made for this rifle will do 4" for 5 shots @ 100 yards.

    And yes jacketed bullets will out shoot cast. But I have also out shot jacketed with cast/ loobed and cast PCed. I know others here have too.

    Dragonheart made no false statements. His testing tells him that PC boolits can equal accuracy of jacketed bullets. I believe that statement and have found it true in my testing. Does it happen all the time, no.

    Let's change the statement around to this, "Jacketed bullets can equal the accuracy of PCed boolits." Is this true, yes. Does it happen all the time, no.

    "Jacketed bullets can equal the accuracy of cast bullets with grease lube." Is this true, yes. Does it happen all the time, no.

    PCed boolits can equal the accuracy of jacketed bullets, so I have no problem with Dragonhearts statement.
    Maker of Silver Boolits for Werewolf hunting.

  2. #42
    Boolit Master gpidaho's Avatar
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    ^^^^^^^^I agree with Hickok Gp

  3. #43
    Boolit Master OS OK's Avatar
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    "….Dragonheart...It's always somewhat disheartening to put forth your innocent best efforts/intentions on something and have it 'go south' on you…especially when other trolls out there exist to try and 'pick the fly-spit out of the pepper'. Nowhere does this resemble a 'white paper' presentation prepared for the Academic review, it is opinion.
    Thanks for your efforts…don't let this experience make you 'gunshy' on your future post.

    Atta-boy-girl…keep it up…OS OK"
    Last edited by Bodine; 02-24-2016 at 03:22 PM. Reason: content/inflamatory
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  4. #44
    Boolit Master
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    OS OK Amen brother. tj

  5. #45
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    i am no expert but i do have my own ransom rest. i build my own 1911's with the best barrels and tightest tolerences i can. i also build my K-frame S&W's from 4-6 inch match barrels. in honesty i do not PC my bullets because i have squeezed and greased for 58 years. now to the jest of this post, max sent me PC bullets to test in my 38spc i used my 6" custom barrel in the ransom rest took 25 of each type bullet and measured them the PC measures .358 to .3587 the squeeze and greased.358. i assembled all with cci primers over 3 grains Bullseye in winchester cases from same bunch of mid-range match brass once fired. the PC bullets were about 4% faster on chrono. the groups were as follows. squeze and grease 1.93 inches at 50 yards. the PC were 2.79 at 50 yards. so they both performed good. you draw your own conclusions.
    my statement is this each one of us has his own favorite way to do things and mine is because i have always done it that way and see no reason to change now at this age. but the PC has a great place and is evolving consistantly to become the way. the name calling and things like this are not acceptible behavior on cast bullets and i think some apologizing should be done now.
    preacher Jim

  6. #46
    Boolit Master Smk SHoe's Avatar
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    Preacher Jim, do you think if you dropped the velocity of the PC'd to match the velocity of lubed it would have made a difference in group size? In pistols maybe not so much, but in rifles, any little change can affect barrel harmonic's and accuracy. Just food for thought

  7. #47
    Boolit Master
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    Here is a link for some other reasons to powder coat and some answers about the Polymet Jacket: http://www.gunsandammo.com/shot-show...-syntech-ammo/

  8. #48
    Boolit Master OS OK's Avatar
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    You can lead a horse to water…or you can give a guy a book, that doesn't guarantee it won't end up nailed inside the outhouse wall.
    Dragonheart…could be we should start working at this with some 'pre-stated' objectives on a 'new concept of PC'd boolits' so people will stop 'generalizing' your intent.
    Some of these guys only care about how much time it takes to do something rather focusing on the quality of their work…There are several 'camps' here with entirely different objectives.
    Then there will always be those that will 'try to pick the fly spit out of the pepper'…what happened to the times when people would chime in and try to understand what your 'motives' are before they start hollering 'foul'?
    Could be we will need to post a 'disclaimer statement of intent' listing our 'specific objectives' before posting results or ideas to improve?
    Still they don't get it about the 'molecular adhesion' to the lead…arguing about definitions…dang man, what's next?

    charlie

    This PC'ing of boolits thus far is just the tip of the iceberg!
    Last edited by OS OK; 04-05-2016 at 02:54 PM.
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  9. #49
    Boolit Master
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    This PC'ing of boolits thus far is just the tip of the iceberg![/QUOTE]

    I think that pretty well sums it up. With enough input I think we will be making rifle bullets that will at least be worth a trip to the range.

  10. #50
    Boolit Master
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    i've been powder coating jelly ...trying to make my own jelly beans.

    no luck so far.

  11. #51
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by mozeppa View Post
    i've been powder coating jelly ...trying to make my own jelly beans.

    no luck so far.
    Well you came to the right site for help!
    Attachment 165451
    Last edited by Dragonheart; 04-06-2016 at 11:52 AM.

  12. #52
    Super Moderator & Official Cast Boolits Sketch Artist


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    OK guys let it go if you disagree do it in a adult manner if unable to do that don't post at all.
    Reloading to save money I am sure the saving is going to start soon

  13. #53
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    I don't PC my boolits because it's too time consuming. Cast/size/don't size/ mix the PC stuff/ dip/ redip / size. Too time consuming and to date I haven't seen a PC boolit that's smooth. All I've seen shown here on this site and in person and they all look rough like sandpaper. With a non smooth exterior, I would think that would affect velocity and trajectory. Just my opinion
    Gun Control means hitting what you aim at!

    Certified NRA Pistol Instructor
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  14. #54
    Boolit Buddy BILLYBOB44's Avatar
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    Smile Is this a Mod Trick??

    Quote Originally Posted by s-3 View Post
    I don't PC my boolits because it's too time consuming. Cast/size/don't size/ mix the PC stuff/ dip/ redip / size. Too time consuming and to date I haven't seen a PC boolit that's smooth. All I've seen shown here on this site and in person and they all look rough like sandpaper. With a non smooth exterior, I would think that would affect velocity and trajectory. Just my opinion
    "All I've seen shown here on this site and in person and they all look rough like sandpaper. With a non smooth exterior"

    Most all pictures on this site show "Slick" powder coated CURED bullets..Yes, the UNBAKED projectiles are rough, but all that I have seen here are SLICK..

    The ONLY rough bullets that I have baked are some that I did two coats on..Some did not take well.

    So--What's up with your comment??..Bill.

    PS:http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...lets-pics-only
    ^^^This thread is full of slick bullets..
    Last edited by BILLYBOB44; 04-06-2016 at 10:34 AM. Reason: Slick bullet thread..
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  15. #55
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    Not stiring the pot or trying to insigate anything here. Opinions are like fingerprints, they are all different. I've been casting for many decades and personally just can't see the added labor and time to make the purty bollits when the old way is just as good. Just an opinion, don't go getting an attitude. That's why they make choc, van, and strawberry icecream, "Different strokes for different folks" is all.
    Gun Control means hitting what you aim at!

    Certified NRA Pistol Instructor
    Life Member of the NRA
    Life Member of the Disabled American Veterans Association

  16. #56
    Boolit Master OS OK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by s-3 View Post
    I don't PC my boolits because it's too time consuming. Cast/size/don't size/ mix the PC stuff/ dip/ redip / size. Too time consuming and to date I haven't seen a PC boolit that's smooth. All I've seen shown here on this site and in person and they all look rough like sandpaper. With a non smooth exterior, I would think that would affect velocity and trajectory. Just my opinion
    "Without sounding like I have an 'attitude'…I'd like to ask you something?…'Really'?"
    a m e r i c a n p r a v d a

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  17. #57
    Boolit Master
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    S-3: If you like to lube, by all means continue to do so, whatever works for you.

    If the PC bullets you have seen look like sandpaper, I can assure you that is not the norm. A properly powder coated bullet is just like a properly powder coated piece of machinery, lawn furniture, motorcycle frames, etc. etc. etc. , which is glass smooth unless a different type of finish is desired.

    Some are into casting for economic reasons because that is the only way they can afford to shoot or shoot in the quantity they wish. Some are into casting in preparation for a SHTF scenario. But I believe most of us who are casting and powder coating are doing this as a hobby and like a true hobby, we do it because it give us pleasure. If my time was an issue I wouldn't be casting at all, I would be back to buying bullets. Powder coating for me is going in a different direction and that is creating a jacketed bullet that is not the the standard metal jacket. The Guns & Ammo Article on what they refer to as the "Synthetic Jacket" is a good example of where the industry is going. However, for some reason the subject of Powder Coating seems to rub a few individuals the wrong way and instead of accepting the fact that some like oranges and some like apples and going their own way. These individuals feel this need to attack, belittling the efforts of others, sowing discord by starting arguments or upsetting other posters. Nobody needs that and it certainly adds no useful information to the topic.

  18. #58
    Boolit Buddy BILLYBOB44's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonheart View Post
    S-3: If you like to lube, by all means continue to do so, whatever works for you.

    If the PC bullets you have seen look like sandpaper, I can assure you that is not the norm. A properly powder coated bullet is just like a properly powder coated piece of machinery, lawn furniture, motorcycle frames, etc. etc. etc. , which is glass smooth unless a different type of finish is desired.

    Some are into casting for economic reasons because that is the only way they can afford to shoot or shoot in the quantity they wish. Some are into casting in preparation for a SHTF scenario. But I believe most of us who are casting and powder coating are doing this as a hobby and like a true hobby, we do it because it give us pleasure. If my time was an issue I wouldn't be casting at all, I would be back to buying bullets. Powder coating for me is going in a different direction and that is creating a jacketed bullet that is not the the standard metal jacket. The Guns & Ammo Article on what they refer to as the "Synthetic Jacket" is a good example of where the industry is going. However, for some reason the subject of Powder Coating seems to rub a few individuals the wrong way and instead of accepting the fact that some like oranges and some like apples and going their own way. These individuals feel this need to attack, belittling the efforts of others, sowing discord by starting arguments or upsetting other posters. Nobody needs that and it certainly adds no useful information to the topic.
    +1 and THANK YOU...Bill.
    Outdoor Sportsman For Life

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  19. #59
    Boolit Master Traffer's Avatar
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    Sounds like a good solution for me. I have been experimenting with reloading 22lr. Actually have reloaded a couple thousand so far and I am in the process of going from prototype dies and tools to a more permanent efficient system. I am also going to be reloading 22 mag in the near future. Powder coating for these look especially promising.

  20. #60
    Boolit Master noisewaterphd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonheart View Post
    The Guns & Ammo Article on what they refer to as the "Synthetic Jacket" is a good example of where the industry is going.
    It may, or may not be useful to mention this isn't the first time Federal has released a coated bullet, and they were not the first or only major manufacturer to mass produce coated ammunition.

    Coated bullets are not a new thing. The concept has been around for decades.

    It is my personal belief that they haven't caught on with the masses not because of performance, but because of economical reasons (talking about production ammo here).

    If Federal is dipping their toes again, then it is likely due to rising copper costs (since 2001), and it sounds like maybe they have figured out the mass production end of it.

    I don't think Federal is powder coating, but coating is coating, it works.
    Last edited by noisewaterphd; 04-07-2016 at 12:21 PM.
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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check