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Thread: Why powder coat?

  1. #21
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    i am no expert but i do have my own ransom rest. i build my own 1911's with the best barrels and tightest tolerences i can. i also build my K-frame S&W's from 4-6 inch match barrels. in honesty i do not PC my bullets because i have squeezed and greased for 58 years. now to the jest of this post, max sent me PC bullets to test in my 38spc i used my 6" custom barrel in the ransom rest took 25 of each type bullet and measured them the PC measures .358 to .3587 the squeeze and greased.358. i assembled all with cci primers over 3 grains Bullseye in winchester cases from same bunch of mid-range match brass once fired. the PC bullets were about 4% faster on chrono. the groups were as follows. squeze and grease 1.93 inches at 50 yards. the PC were 2.79 at 50 yards. so they both performed good. you draw your own conclusions.
    my statement is this each one of us has his own favorite way to do things and mine is because i have always done it that way and see no reason to change now at this age. but the PC has a great place and is evolving consistantly to become the way. the name calling and things like this are not acceptible behavior on cast bullets and i think some apologizing should be done now.
    preacher Jim

  2. #22
    Boolit Buddy Smk SHoe's Avatar
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    Preacher Jim, do you think if you dropped the velocity of the PC'd to match the velocity of lubed it would have made a difference in group size? In pistols maybe not so much, but in rifles, any little change can affect barrel harmonic's and accuracy. Just food for thought

  3. #23
    Boolit Master
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    Here is a link for some other reasons to powder coat and some answers about the Polymet Jacket: http://www.gunsandammo.com/shot-show...-syntech-ammo/

  4. #24
    Boolit Master
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    This PC'ing of boolits thus far is just the tip of the iceberg![/QUOTE]

    I think that pretty well sums it up. With enough input I think we will be making rifle bullets that will at least be worth a trip to the range.

  5. #25
    Boolit Mold
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    Great post. Thanks a lot. There is one more advantage that curing process is much faster in case of powder coating.

  6. #26
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by tech54K View Post
    Great post. Thanks a lot. There is one more advantage that curing process is much faster in case of powder coating.
    Thanks, Tech, one more for the list.

    I have to say when I came up with this post it was not my intention to start a war. My intent was to point out the value of a process I learned by trial and error after Sandy Hook (Sandy Hook was back in 2012) when I couldn't buy the bullets I needed to shoot my weekly IDPA matches. I realized that there are those that are committed to lube or another process, but little did I realize that the mavens would institute an all out and insulting attack.

    Since then I have posted little on this site as my time is much better spent elsewhere. At this point, a year and a half after this post, I can say Federal has proven the value of their "Polymer Jacket" and gone well past my post with scientific tests and evidence adding more reasons to powder coat.

  7. #27
    Boolit Master slim1836's Avatar
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    Powder coating lends itself to long term storage, lead boolits tend to oxidize over time.

    Slim
    JUST GOTTA LOVE THIS JOINT.

  8. #28
    Boolit Mold
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    This thread is exactly why I don't post. If a person just wants to give some helpful information to others, there seems to always be someone who wants to stick their finger in your eye. I also wonder why some post on a topic and say, "I haven't done it yet, but I'm going to", "I have a lot ready to shoot and I'm going to the range tomorrow", "Why do you want to do it that way?",why don't you do it this way?", "I don't have a 308, but I have a 22 1/2 Mosquito and this is what I shoot.", "I don't know anything about that but I have an opinion anyway". The moderator should just delete the posts that have no value to the discussion.

  9. #29
    Boolit Master

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    Marked for reference.
    Sometimes it takes a second box of boolits to clear my head.
    Feed back thread http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...?261449-jeepyj

  10. #30
    Boolit Master


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    Quote Originally Posted by Yodogsandman View Post
    They're "pretty", too!
    ABSOLUTELY!

    GREAT post DragonHeart!!








    CW
    NRA Life member • REMEMBER, FREEDOM IS NOT FREE its being paid for in BLOOD.
    Come visit my RUMBLE & uTube page's !!

    https://www.RUMBLE.com/user/Cwlongshot
    https://youtube.com/channel/UCBOIIvlk30qD5a7xVLfmyfw

  11. #31
    Boolit Master Baltimoreed's Avatar
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    Interesting thread, and with science stuff too, my reason to pc is purely economical. Don’t need premium lead boolits to hit a steel cowboy 12 feet away. I have been given [being a scrounger] and picked up a lot of scrap lead of unknown hardness over the years and the best way to use it is to pc it. PC covers all my leads sins. And pretties it up too. Not as nice as yours there cw.

  12. #32
    Boolit Bub
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    Well said Dragonheart.
    I PC for less smoke.

  13. #33
    In Remembrance - Super Moderator & Official Cast Boolits Sketch Artist

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    Quote Originally Posted by redfir View Post
    This thread is exactly why I don't post. If a person just wants to give some helpful information to others, there seems to always be someone who wants to stick their finger in your eye. I also wonder why some post on a topic and say, "I haven't done it yet, but I'm going to", "I have a lot ready to shoot and I'm going to the range tomorrow", "Why do you want to do it that way?",why don't you do it this way?", "I don't have a 308, but I have a 22 1/2 Mosquito and this is what I shoot.", "I don't know anything about that but I have an opinion anyway". The moderator should just delete the posts that have no value to the discussion.
    Since this thread has came back to life I did a clean up on it for a better read
    Reloading to save money I am sure the saving is going to start soon

  14. #34
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by RP View Post
    Since this thread has came back to life I did a clean up on it for a better read
    I think you did a good job of editing.

  15. #35
    Boolit Master

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    Thanks & kudos to @Dragonheart for unselfishly sharing his PC journey.
    Been DT PC'ing with & without BBs for a while now & still learning from folks who've done most of the heavy lifting...keep it coming!

  16. #36
    Boolit Master

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    I saw an assertion early on on the thread that if we have a higher velocity for a given powder charge that we MUST have had more pressure. When we compare cast bullet loads and jacketed loads with same bullet weight/length/shape the lead bullets typically exhibit a higher muzzle velocity with a given powder charge. This has often been attributed to lower bore friction from the cast bullet. If you have ever tried to load really light "cats sneeze" loads you no doubt noticed it is a LOT easier to stick a jacketed bullet than it is a cast bullet same weight .

    To clarify I am referring to pistol stuff here, rifle stuff gets way more complex .

    Bill
    Last edited by Willbird; 03-28-2019 at 10:07 AM.
    Both ends WHAT a player

  17. #37
    Boolit Master

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    But as to why PC ?? To me the ideal situation is to cast a bullet and use it as cast. Liquid earwax sounded like a great thing and so have other dip lubes for that reason, some get them to kinda work....I have not been satisfied with any product like that...yet .

    PC maybe will be the magic stuff to allow one to cast, PC and shoot if the mold dia is setup right.

    Bill
    Both ends WHAT a player

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Willbird View Post
    But as to why PC ?? To me the ideal situation is to cast a bullet and use it as cast. Liquid earwax sounded like a great thing and so have other dip lubes for that reason, some get them to kinda work....I have not been satisfied with any product like that...yet .

    PC maybe will be the magic stuff to allow one to cast, PC and shoot if the mold dia is setup right.

    Bill
    PC is definitely a contender for your objective. And if doing pistol bullets for plinking, you can bulk cook them without standing them up...which is tedious at best. PC has a lot of advantages but some minor disadvantages too. Another option to look at is BLL (Ben's Liquid Lube) and it does not need to be cooked...just tumble and air dry. Also Hi-Tek, it also needs to be baked.

    Lots of ways to skin the cat. Many threads on each. Need to factor in your needs, the space you have, time you want to spend, etc etc.

    No "perfect" solution that will universally be the best for everyone...but every method will work as attested by many satisfied users of each. Watching YouTube is not always rewarding, but can give you a feel for each process and the time, space and equipment required.
    Don Verna


  19. #39
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Willbird View Post
    I saw an assertion early on on the thread that if we have a higher velocity for a given powder charge that we MUST have had more pressure. When we compare cast bullet loads and jacketed loads with same bullet weight/length/shape the lead bullets typically exhibit a higher muzzle velocity with a given powder charge. This has often been attributed to lower bore friction from the cast bullet. If you have ever tried to load really light "cats sneeze" loads you no doubt noticed it is a LOT easier to stick a jacketed bullet than it is a cast bullet same weight .

    Bill
    Yes, you are correct, the post ignores surface friction, other variables and obviously polymers. The simple solution of, if you want a nail to go deeper, hit it harder, doesn't apply here. Or maybe I should have said, lubricate the nail and see what happens when the same force is applied?
    The coefficients of dry friction depends on the materials sliding over them and the conditions of the surfaces. At higher velocities the coefficients of friction decrease as the velocity increases. The most effective lubricants for non-fluid lubrication are generally those which react chemically with solid surfaces to form and adhering film that attaches to the surfaces with a chemical bond. So yes, an object with less friction (a Powder Coated bullet) can and does move faster with the same applied force.
    As I have stated in other posts, my major was Industrial Engineering not Polymer Physics, but I conferred with and was assisted in this post by Phd's in the chemistry of polymers and physics. But it was not worth an argument to no avail.

    My thanks to those that found this post worthwhile.

  20. #40
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonheart View Post
    Yes, you are correct, the post ignores surface friction, other variables and obviously polymers. The simple solution of, if you want a nail to go deeper, hit it harder, doesn't apply here. Or maybe I should have said, lubricate the nail and see what happens when the same force is applied?
    The coefficients of dry friction depends on the materials sliding over them and the conditions of the surfaces. At higher velocities the coefficients of friction decrease as the velocity increases. The most effective lubricants for non-fluid lubrication are generally those which react chemically with solid surfaces to form and adhering film that attaches to the surfaces with a chemical bond. So yes, an object with less friction (a Powder Coated bullet) can and does move faster with the same applied force.
    As I have stated in other posts, my major was Industrial Engineering not Polymer Physics, but I conferred with and was assisted in this post by Phd's in the chemistry of polymers and physics. But it was not worth an argument to no avail.

    My thanks to those that found this post worthwhile.
    Bullet design plays into it as well IMHO. Many are happy with using existing TL and GG designs and seem quite happy with them.

    To me the ideal would be a bullet that works as cast and PC or whatever, but that also has avail a fairly inexpensive swage die that will make them utterly perfect .

    From the Engineering side (I am not one but I study the disciplines involved) all we did was transfer the imperfections to the inside of the coating from the outside but we also squared and perfected the bullet base in the process.

    A no grease groove mold is way simpler to make as well, the work involved in making grease groove cherries is a labor of love for sure, a simple D reamer that can just be poked into the block to make a cavity is way simpler .
    Both ends WHAT a player

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check