200gr in 7.7 Arisaka and H4895 reduced loads?

[01SVTvert]

I was looking at using the Lyman 200gr in the 7.7 using H4895 and reduced loads. I have used trail boss loads with 150gr jacketed but I already have the mould and some of the 200gr cast, lubed and GCs added.

Anyone have any any input on this? I found info on 7.62x54r using 200gr lead but nothing for 7.7 or 303 Brit to use for reference.

Thanks

[TCLouis]

Not telling you what to do you understand, but according to the info in Lee's manual the 7.62X54 has case capacity of 3.59 and 7.7X58 3.58 ccs.

IS your type 99 in good shape, headspace ok, have you shot it with full power coated projies?

Go to Hogdons web site and read up on reducing 4895 loads and then you will have to decide what you want to do.

Like Bruce Drake, I use 303 British load data when I can not find 7.7X58 info.

[Gunor]

314299?

[bruce drake]

With my T99, I use 303 British loads for 200gr bullets and not the 7.62x54R as the original loads that the Japanese Army developed for their 7.7 Arisakas duplicated the British mk7 service round as well. The pressure in 303 Brit loads are lower than the 7.62x54R.

[01SVTvert]

Thanks. Yes 314299


thanks for the info on the comparisons. I was looking for 303 after 7.7 loads and then referred to 54r loads hoping to get an idea if this data was even available.

I have a couple 99s which have been fired with full loads and function properly. I mainly want the reduced loads for shooting cast rather than trying to shoot cast at full power.

[runfiverun]

try 28.5 grs with a tuft of Dacron on top.
if the Dacron scares you for some odd reason 30 grs will do about the same.
use a LR primer.

[mac1911]

I used hodgdon load data and a few others to come up with a average of max loads with H4895.
Then followed Hodgdons directions for reducing H4895.
H4895 has been very good to me I find no reason to use a filler with H4895.

My pet load with 200 grain cast is a touch above hodgdons formula minimum.

[dogmower]

FWIW, my favorite cast load with the 303 is the 314299, powder coated, over 38 grains of IMR 4350. I use a similar load and boolit in the 7.62x54r, and would expect similar results from the 7.7 Jap.

[leadman]

The 303, 7.65 Arg, 7.7 Jap and the 30-40 Krag have similar case capacities and loading data usually overlaps. In some cases it is the same depending on the source.
Still good to have solid data from a current source just to be safe.

[01SVTvert]

Thanks again for the great information everyone. I planned on powder coating at some point but wanted to first try what I had available. Since I had the lube sizer, gas checks and mold I figured I would work on reduced loads to try and keep leading at a minimum since I have never run cast rifle.

I have worked with tumble lube 38spl, regular lubed 38 and regular lubed 9mm. Zero experience with lead rifle bullets.

[runfiverun]

they ain't all that different.
many don't see the need for a filler of any sort until they see their groups cut in half.
or the ES's cut down by 100 fps or more which cut's their vertical stringing down to none.

[Eddie1971]

FWIW, my favorite cast load with the 303 is the 314299, powder coated, over 38 grains of IMR 4350. I use a similar load and boolit in the 7.62x54r, and would expect similar results from the 7.7 Jap.

I'm going to try this load in my .303 SMLE and my Finn M39. Thanks!

[01SVTvert]

Update. I tried reduced H4895 loads. Loaded up ten. Got to number three fired and stopped. One was a hang fire, one seemed normal and third was a squib with unburied powder left in the case. Not risking any more issues so I pulled down the rest.

[HangFireW8]

Check firing pin extension, rifle headspace, depth of primer dent. Are the primers and powders recently proven OK in other rifles?

[leadman]

Sounds like the OP reduced the H4895 tooooo far. Good he stopped.
I have excellent results using SR4759, 2400, and MP300, all slow handgun/shotgun/ small rifle powders. Start about 16grs with any of these and work up 1 grain at a time. I find around 19 to 20 grains is usually good.

[Larry Gibson]

Update. I tried reduced H4895 loads. Loaded up ten. Got to number three fired and stopped. One was a hang fire, one seemed normal and third was a squib with unburied powder left in the case. Not risking any more issues so I pulled down the rest.

Did you use a Dacron filler as runfiverun suggested?

Also what was the temperature there in Mass. when you shot those?

[01SVTvert]

Did you use a Dacron filler as runfiverun suggested?

Also what was the temperature there in Mass. when you shot those?

I appreciate all the replies.

Primers are the same ones I am using in the full power loads I have and in trailboss loads. No issues there. Powder has had zero issues otherwise. Rifle fires all other loads including factory ammo, my reloads using 4895 at normal levels with jacketed bullets and also using trailboss and lead bullets with no issues.


I did not use filler.
Temperature was in the 60s the day I shot.

I have seen debates about using Dacron filler and figured if the reduced load didn't work without it then I was just going to swap to a different powder. I have loaded up some 200 gr lead bullets with trailboss and will be working on these plus full power loads using lighter bullets.

The use of 4895 started a while ago when powders were somewhat less available and I wanted to try and use what I had for powder including running reduced loads.

[HangFireW8]

What was the load of 4895?

[01SVTvert]

What was the load of 4895?

27.1 gr H4895. 60% of max load I calculated at 26.4gr. All throws were done by hand and the variance would have been much less than a tenth. After rereading this thread I am thinking of bumping it up to 30.5 H4895 and trying this with the lead 200gr gc bullet. I know I need to reread MAC1911's thread on his use of reduced loads.

I also forgot to mention this load was with a 150gr spitzer jacketed bullet. No neck crimp used.

Thanks for everyone's help on this. I expect to just use the 200gr lead bullet with Trail Boss is things don't work out or find another powder that has been recommended, depending on what is available.

[popper]

I've gone down to 20gr of 4895 (and LeverE) in 30/30 with 170gr RD cast, no problems, no filler either. Not a load I'd recommend as 2400/Rx7/4227 are much more productive.