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Thread: AR15 with Lee C225-55-RF mold - terrible groupings

  1. #41
    Boolit Master zubrato's Avatar
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    Consensus on power coating vs traditional lube for 223?


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  2. #42
    Boolit Man bpatterson84's Avatar
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    I use the lee 55gr, at 2500fps, powdercoated, gaschecked, and sized to .224. 3moa groups, which is fine for the plinking ammo it is.

  3. #43
    Boolit Master






    Lloyd Smale's Avatar
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    I wouldn't even fool with conventional lubes especially if shooting them in an AR. Your going to get leading at over 2500fps no matter what alloy or lube your using. I don't have enough experience with pc at those velocitys but the little I did do it I had no leading and the biggest advantage is there are SO MUCH cleaner. Ars get filthy real quick and cast bullet lube makes them filthy in a couple mags.
    Quote Originally Posted by zubrato View Post
    Consensus on power coating vs traditional lube for 223?


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  4. #44
    Boolit Master

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    I have used both the LBT Blue Soft made by Veral Smith and Lyman's Moly lube at over 2,700 fps to 3,000 fps in the 223 with no leading. It does start to fail around 3,000 fps by leaving easy to brush out debris in the barrel. In a 16" AR15 if held to around 2,700 fps they work fine.
    The bullet needs to be very hard, well over 20bhn for these velocities. Aluminum gas checks don't work well on the 22 caliber bullets if high velocity is the goal. Gator copper gas checks do not work as well as the Hornady copper checks. Might be the more rounded base of the Gator checks but not sure of the cause.

  5. #45
    Boolit Man
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    I have great luck with the Lee 225-55 using gas checks and powder coating. No buildup that I have noticed in about 300-400 rounds so far.
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  6. #46
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    bruce drake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Gibson View Post
    Bruce

    No, I have not tried the heavier bullets I cast myself yet. I've had a MP 227-65 for some time but haven't gotten around to it yet.....too many other HV irons in the fire. A couple years back leadman gave me some of his heat treated Hi-tech coated 225438s to test with 4895. They were harder than woodpeckers lips! I found they did very well up to 26-2700 fps if also lubed with a conventional lube....I believe I used 2500+ on them.
    So....just a small sample of 225438s were used.... LOL!
    Bruce
    I Cast my Boolits, Therefore I am Happy.
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  7. #47
    Boolit Master zubrato's Avatar
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    I had pretty good results with the MP 75gr bullets sized and gas checked at 225 with carnauba red for lube. Worked fine, no leading and decent accuracy, though I did not do any strict accuracy tests, just kept working up with h4895 until I got function in my ar15. Donít have results in front of me as Iím currently out of state, but it still put a serious wallop on steel, almost indistinguishable from jacketed 55gr on mild steel.
    I will be revisiting this sometime in the future with powder coat and now that Iím using the vltor a5 buffer system which will cycle a much wider range of ammo effectively.

    Iirc I really hated how quickly h4895 heated up the barrel after one mag it was ridiculous, felt like 4-5 mag dumps of regular 223.



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  8. #48
    Boolit Master

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    I started out casting the Lyman 225-415 and using Carnuba Red from White Label. Running 14.5 grains of 4227 was getting me 2250fps and full cycling of a Ruger 180 model Mini 14. This is a 14" (with a muzzle brake welded and pinned to make it 16") with a 1-10" twist. Then I started powder coating.

    I bought an NOE 62gr RN PB mold just for powder coating (no lube groove) and is also shot great from the Mini 14. BTW, the alloy is 50/50 wheel weight/soft lead. I did use straight wheel weight with the Lyman before powder coating. I'm sure straight wheel weight would do better, haven't gone there yet. The softer lead just does so well on tin cans and other such fodder.

    I built an AR15 with a 1-9" twist that did not want to cycle at 14.5 grains, but grouped okay (NOE mold). As I increased the powder, the groups spread. I reduced the buffer spring and played with the load. It would cycle but it still would not group. I reconciled the NOE boolit would just be for the Mini 14 and the Lyman would be for the AR15.

    Recently, I picked up a NEF single shot .223 which had sat on the shelf at a local shop forever. 24" Bull barrel, 1-12" twist, no sights. I slapped a fixed 4x long eye relief scope and took it out. Loves the NOE boolit, gives 2350fps due to the longer barrel. I am now seriously considering a 1-10" or 1-12" twist barrel for the AR15, just for shooting cast boolits.

    I may order a 20" AR15 bbl without threads for a CA only build with a fixed stock and magazine. Sounds silly because I shoot more in OR or CO these days, I just want to thumb my nose at the ****ard's in my former home state whenever I go west to mow the lawn and spoil some grand babies. That, and be able to go shooting with friends who are still stuck in that messed up place that used to be a great state, CA.
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  9. #49
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by bruce drake View Post
    So....just a small sample of 225438s were used.... LOL!
    Bruce
    Bruce 2500+ was the lube he used on the hitech coated bullets IIRC about 100 of the done in red copper.
    Hell, I was there!

  10. #50
    Boolit Master




    bruce drake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swheeler View Post
    Bruce 2500+ was the lube he used on the hitech coated bullets IIRC about 100 of the done in red copper.
    Oh Ok! I've used Lar's X-Lox and their Carnauba Red 2700 in the past on my high velocity cast work and they do work. I've got about 100 of my 69gr polycoated bullets sized and loaded for a trip to the range soon for their first range test also.
    I Cast my Boolits, Therefore I am Happy.
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  11. #51
    Boolit Buddy
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    Some guns were never designed for cast bullets, and the 5.56/223 in the AR rifle, is very much one of them.

    The AR 15 is at its best with a jacketed bullet, and nothing else.

    To shoot cast in the AR, is to turn the gun, into a very expensive, and very very finicky.... 22 magnum.
    .
    .
    A fellow would be better off, to take the 100 bucks invested in setting up to cast, and put the money into a pile of .224 diameter mil surplus bullets from the gun show...Then put them away for the future..
    .
    In Marlin 30-30 I use the lyman bullet at 1800 fps.
    In Marlin 45/70 I use the 330 Gould, at 1500 fps

    The remainder of my cast bullets are now used in 38, 357, and 9mm, and be done with the rest.
    .
    Great cast bullet cartridges are:
    30/40
    3030
    32 win
    35 rem .. etc.
    AKA: Fat bullets which were designed to shoot at around 1800 to 2200 fps.

    Bad cast bullet ctgs are the pretty much rest.
    270
    223
    220 s
    22/250 etc.
    And in truth, one is better off not to waste his time trying to cast for those.
    .
    Were I to give advice, I would say, "save the high velocity cartridges, ...for high velocity, and in them, shoot jacketed bullets."

    Its a lot less trouble that way..

  12. #52
    Boolit Master
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    Funny.....my heavy barrel 22 250 shoots cast extremely well at 1800-2200 fps. As does my 270. Before one believes someone who says they can’t do something, try believing someone who says they can. While not of the same utility as full power loads in these calibers, these reduced velocity loads save barrel life and are suitable for all game below deer size.

    I am not wasting my time when accurate and useful loads are assembled at low cost.

  13. #53
    Boolit Master




    bruce drake's Avatar
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    Bob,

    You are only are as good as the challenges you put in front of yourself. 30 caliber cast bullets are easy to get to shoot well in cast, and then you move onto the next challenge. For me, I'm shooting cast bullets in 6.5mm and 223 caliber with a lot of success because of trial and error and attention to detail on the processes. Surprise yourself one day and do a search through the group archives and you would be surprised what can be done in calibers other than the "usual"
    I Cast my Boolits, Therefore I am Happy.
    Bona Fide member of the Jeff Brown Hunt Club

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check