1911 failing to eject what questions and process to correct

[RogerDat]

Situation is this:
I have a friend who has his fathers service (Air Force) 45 ACP. He wanted to check out reloading and I have a mold and dies for 45 ACP but Do Not actually own one. I like revolvers not so much into auto loaders but since I have a 45 revolver that uses the mold and was able to pick up a set of dies so another friend could load 45 ACP... He came over and I walked him through using a turret press, plunk testing in the barrel and he leaves with 32 rounds of TL RN lead 230 grain 2R loaded in front of 5.6 grains of Unique. Sized .452 then second TL with a very light coat.

Here is the problem, he gets failure to EJECT with these rounds and mentions afterwards that he also has this problem with other ammo (assume store bought). Some rounds appear to be banged in on one side from the case mouth back. Like the round was pinched at the mouth but only dented on one side. I can ask for clarification on symptoms and conditions but don't really know what to ask.

Here are my questions, what information is needed or what should be checked to diagnose what might be causing the issue? From reading other threads that search turned up it seems that ejection angle and direction might be one data point? Are there things he can check or adjust himself I should suggest? Can something different be done as far as ammo?

The cast 45 ACP were a way to check out the equipment and process but it would be nice if his fathers old weapon could be made to function reliably and have a box or two of cast made up so he can fire it from time to time, doubt he will ever shoot it a great amount since it is a sentimental piece. Even just stuff that will allow him to give better information to a gun shop or try some adjustments to eliminate them as being an issue would be useful. What to check in what order to work through to a solution.

[jcren]

Pull the slide and check the ejector.

That is the flat piece on the top left of the frame (just ahead of the hammer in this pic). The length of it is different for different frames or calipers. This one is a standard 4or5 " 45. If it is broken or has been replaced incorrectly, it will try to eject the round too soon. Can he clear a live round by hand? What shape is the main spring in (broken=binding). I am sure some of the more experienced will chime in.

[C.F.Plinker]

Go down to your favorite range, load one round in a magazine, and chamber it by releasing the slide from the full rearward position. Now unload the pistol and look at the cartridge. This will show you if it is being damaged during loading or if the damage occurs during ejection.

Lyman shows a range of 5.5 to 7.3 grains of Unique for their 225 grain round nose. It looks like your load is on the light end of that range. I don't load using the Lee boolit that you have so I can't comment on your load. Someone who loads it will probably be along with that information.

Since you are on the low end of the charge scale. you might try using lighter recoil springs and see if that helps by allowing the slide to come all the way back.

Can you post any pictures of an unfired round and the case from a round that has been fired?

[gray wolf]

Here is the problem, he gets failure to EJECT

I know what that means, but does he ?

Exactly what do the cases do ? ( very important Info )
If he gets some cases that eject, the ejector may have one broken leg on it, Or it may be loose,
Pull up on the ejector and see if it's loose.

Does it happen on the last round or is it random ?

My choices are Insufficient extractor tension, loose extractor clocking in it's tunnel, (bad fit of the firing pin stop.)
Warn,chipped, or just a bad extractor.

What kind or shape is the recoil spring in ? and is it the correct poundage ? ( #16 )

When the case does not eject does it stay in the ejection port ?
if so, what does it look like ?

[lefty o]

2 things pop to mind. the extractor is not tensioned properly and loses control of the casing upon ejection. secondly bet he's a got a case of limp wrist. after the gun and shooter issues are worked on, then you can fine tune loads.

[flyingmonkey35]

Don't forget a sloppy or lose grip on the firearm will cause a fail to eject/ stove pipe as well.

[wv109323]

The dent on the mouth of the case is where the mouth hits the ejection port on the way out of the slide. That is quite common with ball ammo. That also tells me your load is probably OK. To test ammo put one round in a magazine. Chamber and fire the round(with the magazine in the gun). If the slide locks back the ammo is OK. That tells you the slide is fully travelling to the rear.
To test the tension on the extractor,take the slide off the gun and remove the barrel. Take a loaded round and slide the rim up under the extractor. Hold the slide horizontal. The round should stay under the extractor even with a small shake of the slide..
Next hold a round against the breechface under the extractor. Make sure the extractor is not hitting the case in front of the extractor groove on the brass case. If it is the extractor is being pushed out of the extractor groove.
Also the "hook" on the extractor could be worn not allowing it grab the rim of the case.
Next try to rotate the extractor in the slide. It should not rotate much at all.
The ejector will not look like the one pictured. That is an extended ejector and not used on military guns at all. The improved extended ejector came much later.
Notice where the brass is landing in relationship to the shooter. It should be right rear of the shooter a good 5-8 ft. from the shooter.
The 1911 is a reliable firearm when correct.

[Blackwater]

Lots of good advice above, and all can produce the problem he's having. If I had to guess, I'd guess it's "limp wristing" the gun, but that's only a wild guess. One other thing to consider, since it's his father's gun, could his father have replaced the factory level recoil spring with a stronger one? If so, that light load he's using, combined with a heavier than normal spring could also be a source of the problem. First thing I'd check is his grip. Get him to grip your 4 fingers with the same pressure he's using to grip the gun. That should tell you if he's limp wristing it, which can cause a problem at any time in firing, even with a perfectly set up .45. His forearms especially, also need to be "stiff" in firing. That can make a difference in how reliable the gun feeds. Since autos have the slide recoiling backwards in feeding the next round, it needs solid resistance to push against, or any too-soft"give" will cushion the backthrust of the slide, and cause feeding problems. After checking that out, I'd go with the other things cited if he's OK on grip and arm stiffness.

The dents in the case are probably due to the extractor tending to throw them low, and they're likely hitting the lower part of the ejection port on being ejected. A new extractor from a good company should cure that, but if not, the ejection port may have to be filed/cut lower to allow the ejected cases to clear without getting dinged up. That was a common thing to do with .45's for many years, back when Colt was the only maker.

[RogerDat]

Wow, thanks all for the information so far. Some excellent things to look into. The load of 5.6 grains Unique is from the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook and toward the warm side of what is listed for that powder/bullet combination. However seemed mild overall when compared to other bullets. There was a desire to not hammer the gun. I'll have to confirm but I'm pretty sure his prior ejection issues have been with factory ammo but will suggest he do the single round test to insure the slide locks back.

Been a number of decades since I fired a 45 ACP but seem to recall the recoil made a lasting impression on my younger self. Can't say why but a 45 colt recoil seems modest to me while the ACP seems more dramatic. Could be the SA thing with the revolver. I can see where if the wrists absorb too much recoil it would impact the auto loading on the ACP

[Lagamor]

I broke an extractor once. Was occasionally loading by dropping them into the chamber, cause I didn't know any better. The tip of the extractor broke off and that's when the gun started having FTE problems, just a few at first. But it got progressively worse.
Took me awhile to figure it out, but the side of the brass was getting lightly scratched by the rough surface of the extractor tooth.
Replaced it and the gun hasn't failed since.

[lefty o]

any time a 1911 starts dinging or crunching cases on ejection, the gun is giving you a warning. lots of people think its normal, but it is not, it is a sign of a problem.

[MtGun44]

Remove the slide assembly, then pull the firing pin stop and firing pin, and then pull out the
extractor. It should be quite snug, you should have to pry it up with a small screwdriver.
Pushing it into place should take about 3-5 lbs of fingertip pressure. If it is loose and goes
in and out easily, you need to bend the extractor slightly towards the left as it sits in the gun.

I put the extractor into the slide backwards, using the slide as a lever, and put the front
1/2" or so of the extractor on a piece of hard wood that is OK to mar, and bend slightly
and then reverse it and check the tension.
Once you get the tension right, you should be good.

Also - look and see if the hook on the end of the extractor is there and in good shape.
Occasionally they break off.

No or minimal extractor tension is a common cause of your symptoms.

Bill

[stu1ritter]

I found this on a used 1911 I purchased. It had failure to eject. I pulled the slide off, took out the recoil spring and put the gun back together. Moving the slide back and forth I felt some resistance to the slides movement. Careful examination showed the ejector was rubbing against the slide. Seems someone had dropped the lower and put a slight tweak in the ejector. Straightened it out in a vice and the slide now ran freely. No more failure to eject.
YMMV.

Stu

[motorcycle_dan]

Don't forget a sloppy or lose grip on the firearm will cause a fail to eject/ stove pipe as well.

People do this most of the time. They try to release the trigger while in recoil. You can not help loosening the other fingers while you are loosening the trigger finger. To test: Press and HOLD the trigger back (disconnect will prevent it from firing a second shot) Holding it back should cure the problem and you can convince the shooter that they are limp wristing it. The energy must go into cycling the slide. Others have mentioned the mechanical things to check but almost always it is the loose screw behind the grip safety.

[Char-Gar]

Chasing down ejection failures like this one in a 1911 can result in something like a dog chasing it's tail. Let me offer a suggestion of how to eliminate the most likely causes, and then you can look for the less likely causes.

1. Clean the pistol real good and scrub all powder fouling out from the barrel, frame and slide.

2. Lubricate the pistol correctly.

3. Install a new 16 lb recoil spring.

4. Test fire the pistol using a firm grip using two hands.

Fired cases with a dent in the case mouth were the norm before folks started lowering the ejection port, so don't take that as a sign of anything on an older pistol.

Most likely doing 1-4 will get the pistol perking OK.

5. If after doing 1-4 and the pistol still gives problems, then go look at the extractor, ejector and other springs and gizmos.

I would kick the powder charge up to 6 grains of Unique.

[Virginia John]

Just have someone else (an experienced shooter) fire the pistol and see what happens. That experienced shooter may also be able to tell you whether or not you have a problem andif you do, what it is.

[RogerDat]

Found this article on doing single shot extractor test - magazine removed for firing. Sounds a bit like what a prior poster suggested for testing in single shot mode.
http://modernserviceweapons.com/?p=131