What do you mean "don't fit"? Is the neck ID too small to allow bullet seating or is the case not flared enough to provide an "entry" for the bullet? When there is a "fit problem" measure. Measure the bullets and installed gas check with a micrometer. Difficult to fix a problem if you don't have facts (actual measurements)...
My Anchor is holding fast!
As already mentioned, you need the Lee Universal Expander die. Then buy the NOE expander for it. The expanders come in many different sizes and you can get expanders for any new caliber you add to your gun safe, while only buying one die body. In 30 cal, there are two different expanders, a long and a short. You need the long one for 30-30.
Yes as everyone said you need an extra tool/step. Lee universal is good, Lyman my may be better. And all 30-30s that I've played with tend to run well with .311, it's only been a few and others milage may vary. Cast rifle loading is a whole different beast. Have you slugged your bore and or done a chamber cast? Gold mine of information in regards to what you are working with in those two procedures. After your initial hurdle or 2 thuddy thuddy and cast get along just fine.
Dr.,Originally Posted by DrDucati
Yes the Hornady GC will size down aok. After placing the gc on the bullet, run it through the sizing die.
The gc will spring back about .001" and be .312" after running through a .311" die. At least that is what I have found.
If one anneals the gc to make it soft it will size to .311 with no spring back.
There is no one selling .311" gc's that I know of.
w30wcf
aka w44wcf
aka Jack Christian SASS 11993 "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me." Philippians 4:13
aka John Kort
NRA Life Member
.22 W.C.F., .30 W.C.F., .44 W.C.F. Cartridge Historian
I have never found "spring back" with lead or a GC. I find expansion with aging but never out of a die.
I just measured some old 30-30 boolits sized .311" They are .312" and the check is also .312". But newer cast is .311", check and boolit. I do not believe in "spring back".
I use a Lee collet neck sizing die and then use a Lyman M die on the first stage on my 550. I am now using this combo for all of my rifle calibers and am very happy with the results.
I do not like the "M" die. It removes half the neck tension.
Made to start soft boolits and then under it, the boolits get sized by brass so the bases are smaller then the front. Perfect setup to failure. Easy start is not accuracy.
The only thing I would ask is, what size are the boolits dropping from the mold, if they are dropping at less than .311 the sizing die is doing no more than lubing the boolit. .311 is the most preferred size, yes .309 will work but you may get more leading. .311 does not guarantee that you won't get leading either, there is the factor of lead hardness and type of lube and velocity that you may have to figure out. I' m not trying to scare you away, these are just some things you might have to work with. Happy casting and shooting. By the way the 30-30 is my favorite cast boolit rifle.
Haha! Yes it's a gc bullet.
Lyman M die was ordered, ID neck is like 305, bullet drops 310/311. Doesn't flare at all with the Lee die set, I'm sure the M will take care of it. Thanks. And thank you w30wcf.
Your gas checks will size down, but they have more spring back then cast alloy. Some people like to anneal the check, but I don't. In my opinion a far better expander is the RCBS type. The don't leave the pretty sharp step that the Lyman M type does. With a softer alloy in a flat base design bullet the Lyman expander step will booger up the base of the bullet and size it down a little too. The RCBS is an expander and it bells or flares the mouth and you adjust the flare to suit your needs. You really should get a setup to not over work the case mouths more then necessary. A bushing dies is great for this and if you order the correct size bushing you won't be over working the case mouth. If you're shooting a .311 cast bullet I recommend expanding the cast mouths .0015 inch smaller then the bullet. Going .002 is fine too.
I have used the Lyman M die, Lee's universal and even a 7.7 Jap sized. All worked fine. In 30-30 I have had good results with .309, .310, and .311. The smaller in my M70, the larger in my 336.
I get larger expander balls for my .30 cal dies, IIRC a .303 has ha ball close to .310. Never had problems with a .311 not having enough neck tension. Also just use the M die enough to flare the neck the depth of the gc so the neck is not reduced. I have pulled .311 boolits from cases this way and they were the same size as when seated.
Paper targets aren't your friends. They won't lie for you and they don't care if your feelings get hurt.
What I have found is if a GC is larger then the boolit, It expands the brass as you seat larger then the boolit so you lose the tension. Much more important in a revolver.
I prefer the RCBS type flare tools as well. NOE has good ones that fit in the LEE flare die as was already mentioned.
I just started with 30-30 and have a little 1950s vintage WW brass . I found my bolt rifle to be very happy with a half neck size from of all things a 308 full length die . I've set it leaves the ID about .308, a quick burnish twist with my 20 mm bullet flairing tool and happiness. As far as loading goes anyway the range may suggest something else .
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Before I got a flair die I used to put a set of needle noise pliers in the case and with light pressure give it a twist. This would bell the mouth just a hair and let my GC bullet get started. Might want to give it a go.
44man,
Unless the gas check is excessively larger then the bullet the natural elasticity or neck tension spring back will alleviate that problem. I've never seen a situation myself when that gas check was slightly larger then the bullet that the bullet was loose. In bottleneck rifle cartridges it is desirable to have a slightly larger gas check especially in tapered neck chambers (which most are) as it helps center the front of the cartridge to the centerline of the bore for accuracy improvements.
NO, the brass will not spring back to the boolit. Your best bet is a check boolit size.
Let's agree to disagree. Oh, I edited to add then how come brass shrinks back from the chamber wall after the gas pressure obturated it?
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| BR | Bench Rest | M | Magnum | RN | Round Nose |
| BT | Boat Tail | PL | Power-Lokt | SP | Soft Point |
| C | Compressed Charge | PR | Primer | SPCL | Soft Point "Core-Lokt" |
| HP | Hollow Point | PSPCL | Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" | C.O.L. | Cartridge Overall Length |
| PSP | Pointed Soft Point | Spz | Spitzer Point | SBT | Spitzer Boat Tail |
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