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Thread: #5010,good for anything other than .50 BMG?

  1. #1
    Boolit Master in Heaven's Range
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    #5010,good for anything other than .50 BMG?

    I have 7 jugs of 8 pounds EACH in my building.
    Is this powder good to use in any smaller caliber?
    Maybe a .30/06 or anything?
    Thanks Friends,
    Jeff

  2. #2
    Boolit Master
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    I have used lots of it duplexed in straight wall cases like 45/70, 50/90 ect.
    I would sure like to get a couple kegs from ya but theres no way to get it here.
    BIC/BS

  3. #3
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    There is some load data for 5010 in the 30-06 and other smaller rounds on castpics. It should be very easy to load as it is impossible to overcharge anything but the huge magnums with 5010. I'd start at 85% case volume and go from there. Generally you get incomplete burn and will have to clean out the garbage in the barrel fairly regularly. I seem to remember some complaints when using it in lever guns that it dumped large amounts of **** in the action and led to frequent disassembly/cleanings. If you decide it aint worth fooling with, yell I might find a use for some of it .
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  4. #4
    Boolit Master
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    Is there still someone who is still selling that powder?

    I have a Shiloh Sharps carbine in 50-70 that I would like to try it in.

    Thanks.

    Sean

  5. #5
    Boolit Master Maven's Avatar
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    Jeff, Search this site's archives for loading data for IMR 5010 as well. You'll find that 5010 works in .30-06 sized cartridges with heavy cast bullets and mag. primers. It works even better if you use a small amount of filler too: cereal filler is cheaper, but poly- does an even better job in taming the extreme velocity spreads and lowering standard deviations. For the '06, try 48grs. 5010 + 1.0cc (Lee Dipper) poly- filler + mag. primer. Btw, this load also works in the 7.5 x 55mm Swiss (K-31), but with 0.7cc. poly- filler.

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    Boolit Bub
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    Moderator Emeritus/Boolit Master in Heavens Range
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    Quote Originally Posted by madcaster View Post
    I have 7 jugs of 8 pounds EACH in my building.
    Is this powder good to use in any smaller caliber?
    Maybe a .30/06 or anything?
    Thanks Friends,
    Jeff
    Makes a pretty good case filler in IE 30-06, to reduce standard deviations. I tried to use it in '06 with an 'igniter charge' (ie, bullseye, 4227, 3031, etc) but didn't get any pressure indicators until I approached the max charge for the 'igniter'. From that, I assumed that it just wasn't burning to amount to anything.

    Molly
    Regards,

    Molly

    "The remedy for evil men is not the abrogation of the rights of law abiding citizens. The remedy for evil men is the gallows." Thomas Jefferson

  8. #8
    Boolit Master
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    mousegun
    Ah, I dont want to look dumb but what was the link for? I musta missed sumthin.
    BIC/BS

  9. #9
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    ive thought about buying a jug myself to play with in the 4570s but never could bring myself to paying for a jug that i dont know i can get to work.
    sixgun junky

  10. #10
    Boolit Bub Sanchez's Avatar
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    Used this grade several yrs ago in 3 calibers w/ mostly good results. It required a massively heavy crimp w/ any config proj or caliber (in boolit weight regards: the heavier, the better). Even w/ mag LR primers & lite duplex starter charges, it left MUCHOS unburned granules ..... never got over that completely & especially in the bigger bores (ie: .45-70, ala my unaltered 1875-built Trapdoor long rifle - had to shake them coarse granules out from the muzzle after every shot!). So, we quickly abandoned this caliber/powder combo. It worked just fine in 8x57mm JS Mauser & 7.7x58mm Arisaka, where we found less unburned/wasted powder, lite recoil, & consistent velocity/accuracy (but of course - reduced Vs). Noting the heavy boolits/crimps utilized, it was actually a fair trade-off & still have no great regrets. Heck, this stuff was CHEAP !!

    The lot we had did eventually turn sour & go bad from age/storage decomposition, wrecking a perfectly good unground-Mum late 24th Series Kokura T-99 in the process. The ammo was already loaded ..... so we pulled-it down. Upon inspecting the remaining powder in the 8lb OEM jug, we discovered that it too smelled rancid (vinegary/acidic) & gave off some nasty, glittery, reddish-brown fumes. Further examining, we noted some large clumps/clods of bound-together granules & a sweaty, sticky residue (both inside & out) on the plastic walls. Thus, the remainder of it quickly found it's way to the lawn in the back yard.

    A fine, fitting finale, eh ??
    (The Bermuda liked it, too ...... )
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  11. #11
    Boolit Bub
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullshop View Post
    mousegun
    Ah, I dont want to look dumb but what was the link for? I musta missed sumthin.
    BIC/BS
    Second posting by Veral referencing slow powders with a duplex load. The germane part:

    "2. Duplex loads are always used to get a slow burning or hard to ignite powder burning, or make it burn clean so will most often be used in rifles with considerable case capacity. They will probably be found most useful in making surplus cannon powder work in cartridges where they don't develop enough pressure/velocity to make them usable.

    Follow this one safety rule and you won't get in trouble. ALWAYS COMPRESS THE POWDER. ALWAYS. ALWAYS!!

    The mechanics are as follows.

    If a full case of powder is too slow to develop desired pressure, reduce the main slow powder charge and add a faster burning powder under it, so the total load is compressed. Do this gradually and you'll need to test fire each load immediately. If you have to go to a range to shoot, forget it. You will be open for confusion and trouble. For an example: I bought a bunch of very slow burning cannon powder which would only push 30-06 bullets to about 1800 fps with a lot of unburned powder. Lets say a compressed load was 60 gr. I reduced it by 2 grains, and dropped in 2 grains of Unique over the primer. Better speed and pressure, less unburned powder, but still very low velocity. Repeat, but put in 4 gr Unique. The fast powder can be anything relitively fast, for 30-06 it could be from 700X up to 4198. The object is to get enough fast powder in to raise cartridge pressure up to a good burning rate for the slow powder, after which it burns along smoothly and clean. So, for illustration purposes, perhaps it required a final load of 10 gr Unique and 50 of the slow powder to get good working pressure and velocity. It would have taken perhaps half a case of 4198 to do the same thing, or perhaps 6 gr of Bullseye, 231, 700 X etc very fast powder. Exactly the same thing as using kindling to start large wood burning in a wood stove, only it happens quicker. In the case of the above 30-06, slow surplus powder loads, I got full power and clean burning loads using duplex, using a powder that I had no other use for, and it was EXTREMELY inexpensive! I didn't try to exceed what I could get with single powder loads. (Note that slow and fast powders very greatly in density. This means the fast powder charge increase will be different than the slow powder reduction, as I stated in my illustration above. When you reduce the big charge, put in enough fast powder to get compression."


    For "slow burning powder" substitute IMR 5010.
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  12. #12
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    "... test fire immediately...???"

    "Do this gradually and you'll need to test fire each load immediately. If you have to go to a range to shoot, forget it. You will be open for confusion and trouble. "

    Gents;

    With only very rudimentary record-keeping and case-marking abilities, it's perfectly possible to stair-step charges or other load variations so that each varying increment can be observed as it's fired. If the trend indicates that things are getting out-of-hand, just STOP shooting, and take the remaining loads home and break them down.

    This is not a difficult task, nor a challenge to most folks' intellects, and I fail to see the reason for the statement quoted above. I've been doing some work using 5010 in .30-caliber cartridges with 4198 "primer charges", without pressure problems or burning irregularity, and without any safety concerns. Speeds were quite consistent in my early experiments. The compression of the charge, to immobilize the component parts, is the critical factor in my opinion.

    The ammunition was hauled about ten miles, with the last 1/2 mile on a rough trail. Transportation abuse is the only factor I can see for the quoted caution, and transport had ZERO effect on my rounds....nor did I expect any such treatment to affect the ammunition.
    Regards from BruceB in Nevada

    "The .30'06 is never a mistake." - Colonel Townsend Whelen

  13. #13
    Boolit Master Linstrum's Avatar
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    When Purina Rifle Chow kibble, also known as IMR 5010, was cheap it was worthwhile to mess around with it to make it work in cartridges like .30-06 and the magnums. I have used it with about 3 grains of IMR 3031 or IMR 4895 over the flash hole in conjunction with a mildly compressed load and got it to clean up. Quite oddly unlike the quote from Veral, for me it will not clean up with Red Dot, Bullseye, or other real fast powder. It took another single base slower propellant to initiate total combustion without leaving a great deal of tan colored "mummies" or unburnt grains behind. Because the IMR 5010 grain size is so great I would have some concern for a small grain size flash hole booster charge maybe sifting down and infiltrating through the huge 5010 grains, causing it to lose effectivenes as a booster by becoming diluted. It would still work, just not as well as when freshly assembled. As Bruce B stated, compression of the assembled load is necessary for the components to stay immmobilized in case of rough handling or vibration during transport.

    I also shoot .50 BMG and IMR 5010 even has a tendency to leave mummies behind in the cartridge it is designed for! A cast boolit load for .50 BMG that works well for me is the Lee .50-70 U.S. Gov .515 x 500 grain with 154 grains IMR 5010. I will NOT say it is a mild pleasant load to shoot, nothing that burns 154 grains smokeless is mild and pleasant!

    Good luck with smaller sized duplexed rifle loads, they work well for me!
    Last edited by Linstrum; 05-06-2008 at 06:12 AM.
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    Safe casting and shooting!

    Linstrum, F.O.B.C. (member, Fraternal Order of Boolit Casters), alloutdoors.com survivor, and Shooters.com alumnus.

  14. #14
    Boolit Master Ricochet's Avatar
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    As for that incremental load development being a pain when driving back and forth to the range, that's true! The solution is to take a Lee Hand Press and associated loading gear to the range.
    "A cheerful heart is good medicine."

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check