No groove rifle boolits,do they work

[PAT303]

So with the coatings we are using know is there any reason to shoot lube grooved boolits?,I'm seriously thinking of selling my grooved boolit molds and buy smooth sided as I see no reason to use liquid lubes again so don't need grooves,will they still work?. Pat

[ipijohn]

So with the coatings we are using know is there any reason to shoot lube grooved boolits?,I'm seriously thinking of selling my grooved boolit molds and buy smooth sided as I see no reason to use liquid lubes again so don't need grooves,will they still work?. Pat

I have never seen a jword bullet with grooves and they seem to work for me!? I shoot only grooved and PCed boolits because they work and I can't justify buying new molds based on looks.

[Dragonheart]

When was the last time you saw a grooved copper jacketed bullet? Our PC process is more than lube it's similar in thickness & hardness to copper plating, a chemically bonded jacket.

[Hickok]

Accurate Molds has some boolit designs for the 300 BLK that are smooth, to be used with PC.

[newton]

Some jacketed bullets actually do have grooves, but those are usually all copper and really long.

But, I think a groovless boolit would be just fine. Actually, when I get rich, or have some friends that do, I would like to have some groovless molds made for all my rifles. I think that in a rifle we could see the benefit of groovless boolits that are powder coated. In pistol rounds it would just be about looks I believe.

[newton]

NOE has one for the 22 cal that I would be half tempted to buy, but it is only a plain base bullet. In rifles, other than just plinking, I would still use gas checks.

[nekshot]

Yes I was thinking totally in line with your thoughts than I rubbed some simple lube in the grooves of a boolit (PC'd and checked) and shot a string and to My dismay they groubed much better! I have not done this in other boolits to say this is fact but it clearly helped that specific boolit. I tried it with only PC, not as good, then put some Ben's Red on and no good, but with the "Simple Lube" mix it works. Go figure!!!

[newton]

Yes I was thinking totally in line with your thoughts than I rubbed some simple lube in the grooves of a boolit (PC'd and checked) and shot a string and to My dismay they groubed much better! I have not done this in other boolits to say this is fact but it clearly helped that specific boolit. I tried it with only PC, not as good, then put some Ben's Red on and no good, but with the "Simple Lube" mix it works. Go figure!!!

I just read something to this effect also. Interesting.

What is "Simple Lube"?

[popper]

Yes, they work very well, if you don't plan on using lube. It makes a tougher boolit. That said, I have grooved & ungrooved versions of the same boolit, I can't tell any difference with MY alloy pushed to jacketed fps (308W). Actually, my ungrooved do have a minuscule groove to collect Pb pushed from the long front band. I use basically the same design in BO sans GC shank pushed to 2100. Both have same accuracy as jacketed, limited by my ability. No fill out problems so I only look for wrinkles and base when culling. I haven't cast with the grooves for a couple years now. I have a grooved for 40, small groove for 9 and they work OK for me. If I go back to cast in the 30/30 I'll probably do a grooveless 2x RD or 30 Hunter PB boolit.
edit:

PC process is more than lube it's similar in thickness & hardness to copper plating

Not really. I tried shooting some 40 & 9 with 2 coats of HiTek, got minor leading. Added a third coat and no leading. Same conclusion as with PC - thicker is tougher - as the coating is abraded going down the bore. As Nekshot states, extra 'simple' lube may reduce abrasion and per Larry G.'s tests, picks up and extra 50 or so fps. In my rifle testing IMO, real thick coats tend to reduce accuracy, but I don't do any nose sizing so maybe imbalance there?

[nekshot]

I shot again this morn and at 80 yards they were touching one another. I size some 8mm boolits down to .314 and those loose the grooves and when GC and PC they look like a Jbullet. I am going to run these across a file and then smear "simple lube" on and shoot and see if they groub better. I am not trying to create a new fad, I simply hand lubed a bunch of boolits last week and they shot better. Now I need to say these are the "best" boolit and load combinations I had so far in this given rifle. In other words the boolits were as close to perfect fit for this gun as I know how to do which if you knew me isn't saying much, but I try.

Simple Lube recipe is on lube post. It doesn't not feel slippy like BR but it sure works for me as I am trying to get over 2000 fps with accuracy.

[runfiverun]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...02#post1882902
here is the recipe.

[waksupi]

I have found with PC I have had to jiggle my loads a bit from what I was shooting with standard lubed bullets. I had an established load that used to shoot an inch and a half. With PC, it went to 3". After trying different loads, I ended up going .5 gr. more powder, and got 3/4" groups.

[Smoke4320]

I have found with PC I have had to jiggle my loads a bit from what I was shooting with standard lubed bullets. I had an established load that used to shoot an inch and a half. With PC, it went to 3". After trying different loads, I ended up going .5 gr. more powder, and got 3/4" groups.

so If I am reading your post properly after some load development PC cut your group size in half?

[PAT303]

I have a lyman 311299 single cav mold thats good for nothing,my .30 cals are military so need .315 at the least,I might bore it out into a .306 bore-.315 groove smooth sided cavity and try it. Pat

[Dragonheart]

I have found with PC I have had to jiggle my loads a bit from what I was shooting with standard lubed bullets. I had an established load that used to shoot an inch and a half. With PC, it went to 3". After trying different loads, I ended up going .5 gr. more powder, and got 3/4" groups.

I received and email today from a friend who has been doing some compairson tests using different lubes vs PC bullets. What was interesting is in identical loads there is about a 4% velocity increase across the board with the PC over the lubed bullets. Not a lot, but significant. He plans to do some accuracy comparisons between lube & PC, something I haven't had the time to do. My point is this additional velocity may be a reason a good lubed load lube needs to be tweaked when switching to PC?

[waksupi]

so If I am reading your post properly after some load development PC cut your group size in half?

Yes. This was in a 8mm.

My instinct was that I needed to drop the charge weight a bit. I tried five lighter loads, until the light went on and I tried an increase.

[nekshot]

curious, was that with a fast burn powder or normal powder? The reason I ask is I almost could swear when I use varget or LVR the PC and Lube work best.

[waksupi]

Yes. This was in a 8mm.

My instinct was that I needed to drop the charge weight a bit. I tried five lighter loads, until the light went on and I tried an increase.

I did mis-speak on a point here. I was shooting several milsurps last week. The one in question was a 6.5X55. Went from 35, to 35.5 gr WC860

[nekshot]

this after noon I shot a string of 8mm Lee 175's swaged down to .314 and was a slick flat base boolit. I am shooting in a 7.62x39 carcano rifle. I used the same recipe as I was using for the Lee185-314. These boolits fit the cartridge exactly as the lee185's and fit into chamber the same. The lubed only(no GC because they are flat base now) shot horrible, 3 inch groub. Ok, I rolled some on a file and simple lube and those went 2 inches. After used to seeing cloverleaf type groubs this felt depressing. I have some lyman 8mm-165 boolits that are sized down and have GC's on them. They have faint rings on yet but very close to slick and I was able to size them down with oversize .308 GC's on. Bases look good so maybe tomorrow I'll shoot again.

[nekshot]

this after noon I shot a string of 8mm Lee 175's swaged down to .314 and was a slick flat base boolit. I am shooting in a 7.62x39 carcano rifle. I used the same recipe as I was using for the Lee185-314. These boolits fit the cartridge exactly as the lee185's and fit into chamber the same. The lubed only(no GC because they are flat base now) shot horrible, 3 inch groub. Ok, I rolled some on a file and simple lube and those went 2 inches. After used to seeing cloverleaf type groubs this felt depressing. I have some lyman 8mm-165 boolits that are sized down and have GC's on them. They have faint rings on yet but very close to slick and I was able to size them down with oversize .308 GC's on. Bases look good so maybe tomorrow I'll shoot again.

sorry I made a mistake, the first groub of slick boolits where PC only, no lube.