New member with a Lee-Enfield

[scottyp99]

Hi, guys!
I'm brand new to the forum, although I've been lurking for some time now. I have finally joined the forum because I would like some specific advice about a cast bullet load I have been giving some thought to. I have some experience reloading both pistol and rifle rounds, but have never dealt with either cast boolits or reduced powder charges. Here is what I would like to try: I would like to use this boolit,

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/459...ter-box-of-500

in a .303 British cartidge, using Red Dot powder. I would like to keep velocity low enough to avoid severe leading, but there is no need to be subsonic. (Although, I am not against a subsonic velocity, either, in fact, it might come in handy out in the backyard) How many grains of Red Dot should I use? Even just a range of powder charge weights would be helpful. Also, A charge weight for loading a "0" buckshot round ball would be appreciated. Thank you,

scottyp99

[DanM]

Welcome! You have a great, historic cast bullet rifle there. However Enfields usually prefer a fatter and heavier bullet than the one you linked to. A .315" bullet in the 160-180gr neighborhood would be closer to the norm. You need to do a 'pound slug' of your throat or at least do a slug through your bore. A cast bullet that is around .002" over your groove diameter, weighing 160-180grs over about 9grs of red dot would be a good place to start. Some Enfields are at their best with even fatter than .315" cast bullets. The bullet you mentioned might shoot OK at low velocity, you never know, but you will likely end up frustrated with it.

[Multigunner]

I'd also like to find a proper powder and charge for a round ball plinking load for the .303.
I already have a box of 100 .315 round balls intended for a .31 colt C&B revolver.

When making up round ball loads for the .38 Special I sized down .375 balls intended for the .36 Navy by drilling a 23/64" (.3594") hole in a steel slab and pounding them through the hole with a rawhide mallet.
Probably not necessary with the .315 ball in the .303, most .303 chamber necks are loose enough that there shouldn't be a problem with binding.

[HABCAN]

LEE has a mold for the boolit you show which would be cheaper in the long run. For me, I cast the LEE C309-113F in a beagled mold, and size .314. I bought another duplicate LEE mold and drilled it out with a 5/16" drill to make PB boolits for low velocity loads. Seated on 5.0 grs. Red Dot with a standard Large Rifle (or Large Pistol) primer, it's a backyard joy. YMMV.

[scottyp99]

Hey, guys, I hope you won't be offended when I say that I am not prepared to cast boolits at this time. (I live in an apartment, and the hassle is just not something I'm willing to do. I am scrounging bits of lead here and there though, so, someday.....)What I am looking for is a cheap, low recoil, store-bought, lightweight bullet with low muzzle velocity (maybe around 1200 fps) How about a Red Dot starting load for the single ought buckshot round ball? (cheap, cheap, cheap!) I'm thinking 3-4 grains of Red Dot, what do you think? At 3.5 grains per round, jeez, I could get 2000 rounds from a pound of Red Dot! I could make plinking ammo for $.08 per round!

scottyp99

[leebuilder]

Hi and welcome. Been useing the low velocity for while lots of fun. I have experimented with round balls in 303, not much success, no accuracy, just my expeience hope you get them to work, even tryed two stacked on top of each other in 3030. I use 185gr lee or 314299 and my fave for 303 is 316202, my biggest boolit so far has been .314" . I have used red dot extensivly in reduced loads, 5.5 gr to start. I found accuracy inconsistant under 5.5gr, enlarging the flash hole may prove to give better results, never tryed it yet. And it is lots of fun, did i say fun. I realize you cant cast maybe some one here can fix you up with a few to try.
Be safe

[scottyp99]

Oh, I'm glad you reminded me, leebuilder, If I use 3 grains of Red dot under a single ought buckshot round ball, should I be enlarging the primer hole for such a small charge?

scottyp99

[leebuilder]

Never enlarged my flash holes. I could try it this week. I think a low charge would benifit from it, I have read that others here do it, maybe they will chime in. I forget what size shot I was using I had to run it through my Lee push through sizer to .313" looked nice loaded fine, just never hit the x ring or even the paper. 3030 ones were .309 and one ball was a good hit and the second hit 3" below
Be well

[longbow]

Larry Gibson has posted many times about using .32 cal. handgun boolits in .30 cal rifles with good success. I don't recall if he mentions them in .303 British of not.

I find that my Mihec 316410 130 gr. does not feed well in my Lee Enfields due to short nose. It shoots well if single loaded but does not feed well so that may be an issue for you with those stubby little boolits.

Also, I have 5 Lee Enfields and all run bout 0.314" groove and 0.315" throat. I size to 0.315" with good results. When I bought a Lyman 314299 mould it cast to 0.313" and accuracy was poor. Lapped out to cast to 0.315" things improved but in the end I bought the NOE 316299 clone and that did it! Very accurate.

You do need to slug your bore and throat. My suggestion is to size to the throat or at least as large as will chamber and that will likely be 0.314" or larger if my guns are any indication.

I will also suggest getting a Lee collet die and neck size only and to suit the boolit diameter (you can adjust the collet to do that without a mandrel). Sizing brass down to suit 0.312" boolits when you are actually using 0.315" boolits is hard on brass and tends to size the boolits when they are seated due to excess neck tension.

If you full length size, brass life will likely be quite short. Regular annealing and neck sizing only will improve brass life dramatically.

Lightest boolit I have shot from my .303's were paper patched 100 gr. but accuracy was poor. Next is the Mihec 316410 which is giving quite good accuracy and was pretty zippy over 10 grs. of 700X... more so than anticipated actually! I normally load them over 20 - 22 gr.s IMR4227 with very good results. Not as economical (or quiet) as 3 to 5 grs. of Red Dot though.

Make sure the boolits are the right size for your gun and you should have some fun and good accuracy.

Longbow

[Hick]

Scotty-- Welcome. You're not the only one shooting cast boolits that doesn't cast yet because he doesn't have a proper place to do it-- I'm in the same situation. You just have to work a little harder to find which maker has just the right boolit that your rifle likes (I have the same problem, different rifles).

[leadman]

The bullet you linked to will probably need to be fired at very low velocity. My guess is no faster than 1,000 fps and keeping them around 800 to 900 might yield better accuracy.
For years when I did not cast for many cartridges I would use 32cal. jacketed pistol bullets in my 1891 Arg. Mauser and #4MKI Enfield. Just a few dollars more than most commercial cast bullets and will take velocities much higher than the bullet you linked to. They maintained accuracy well over 100 yards also.
For the bullet you linked to I would try 4 grs of Red Dot and adjust up or down as needed. If you go down on the charge weight you may stick a boolit in the bore so have a metal rod and hammer along with you. Wrap tape around the rod to keep it centered in the bore, Make sure there is tape on the end that contacts the boolit. Some penetrating oil can also make it easier to drive the boolit out. Jacketed bullets take more effort to pass thru the bore so do not go too low. They can be hard to get out.

[scottyp99]

How much Red Dot would you use for a 0 buckshot round ball that weighs around 54 grains?

scottyp99

[Thumbcocker]

3 grains. Roll ball in liquid lube seat 1/2 way and enjoy. don't resize the case.

[Le Loup Solitaire]

Ann article specifically on the shooting of cast bullets in Lee-Enfield rifles is found in the book titled, "The Art of Bullet Casting" still in print by Wolfe publishing. Author of the article is Carmichael who was at one time the editor of Field and Stream. The book itself is a collection of fine articles on all pertaining to cast bullets. Worth looking up and owning. LLS

[dogmower]

I shoot the lyman 314299 sized to .314 over 36 grains of imr4350. shoots 3-4" groups at 200 meters with good velocity and no leading. boolits are powder coated.

[FullTang]

I agree with Longbow's comment about .32 pistol bullets---I've used a couple of kinds of coated .32 bullets in .303 with success, but just tried this plated bullet: http://www.xtremebullets.com/7-62-s/48049.htm
It's a 123 gr designed for use in AKs, but it measures .3135 and works very nicely in my (genuine) Jungle Carbine. Unique, Herco, and Universal have all worked well for me in the 9-13 gr range; 12 gr Universal gives me a pretty zippy load that hits right at point of aim at 100 yds when I use the 200 yd sight (factory loads shoot way high.) Haven't had a chance to chrono yet, but it should be in the 1400-1500 fps range, and it's quite accurate.

[scottyp99]

I agree with Longbow's comment about .32 pistol bullets---I've used a couple of kinds of coated .32 bullets in .303 with success, but just tried this plated bullet: http://www.xtremebullets.com/7-62-s/48049.htm
It's a 123 gr designed for use in AKs, but it measures .3135 and works very nicely in my (genuine) Jungle Carbine. Unique, Herco, and Universal have all worked well for me in the 9-13 gr range; 12 gr Universal gives me a pretty zippy load that hits right at point of aim at 100 yds when I use the 200 yd sight (factory loads shoot way high.) Haven't had a chance to chrono yet, but it should be in the 1400-1500 fps range, and it's quite accurate.

I have looked at those exact bullets, and considered them, and I may end up buying a box of 500. How much Red Dot would you put under one of those plated 123 grain bullets? I'm thinking 7-10 grains.

scottyp99

[FullTang]

That sounds about right, though I have not tried Red Dot with this bullet. If you start with 7 grains and work up, you'll likely go from mild subsonic to somewhat crisper supersonic over that range. This bullet can handle it, though. With the unplated, soft swaged bullets you originally mentioned, I'd stay in the subsonic range for sure. I have found that the Xtreme plated bullets have their limit when I was working up Unique loads in .308 with their 150 gr bullet. In that case, when I got over 12 gr of Unique, the bullet became very unstable and inaccurate; I assume it was too soft for that kind of speed. I haven't reached that limit yet with this 123 gr bullet in .303, but I expect it could use a little more powder for the lighter bullet.

[scottyp99]

Maybe I'll try it with the Unique, I have been wanting to try Unique in .38 Special, anyway. In all the reloading data I have seen, for .38 Special, it looks like it gives about 50 fps more velocity than W231, for the same pressure.

scottyp99

[scottyp99]

I have been comparing reduced rifle loadings, in general, and it looks like 8-12 grains of Red Dot should fit the bill for these 123 grain plated bullets. I think I will start out in the middle, with 10 grains, and see how that goes. I don't want to start out too low, for fear of getting a round stuck in the barrel, seeing as these are plated rounds. Does that sound kosher to everybody?

scottyp99