Lots Of Cities Have The Same Lead Pipes That Poisoned Flint

[M-Tecs]

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/lot...fcL&ocid=edgsp

Just how many lead pipes are there in Flint, Michigan, where the water has been undrinkable because of high lead levels? Nobody knows.

"A lot of work is being done to even understand where the lead services lines fully are, so I would say any numbers you're hearing at this point are still speculation," Michigan Gov. Rick Snyder (R) said Wednesday.

It's a problem that's much bigger than Flint: there are millions of lead pipes all across America, putting children at risk of stunted growth, brain damage and a lifetime of diminished potential. Just this week, residents of Sebring, a town of 8,000 in rural Ohio, were told not to touch their tap water out of lead fears similar to Flint's.

"This is a situation that has the potential to occur in however many places around the country there are lead pipes," Jerry Paulson, emeritus professor of pediatrics and environmental health at George Washington University, said in an interview. "Unless and until those pipes are removed, those communities are at some degree of risk."

There are roughly 7.3 million lead service lines in the U.S., according to an estimate by the Environmental Protection Agency, down from 10.5 million in 1988. Service lines are the pipes connecting water mains to people's houses. They're mostly found in the Midwest and Northeast.

Despite the life-altering consequences of lead poisoning, there is no national plan to get rid of those pipes. A top reason for continuing to use lead service lines instead of immediately digging them up is that utilities can treat water so it forms a coating on the interior of the pipes -- a corrosion barrier that helps prevent lead particles from dislodging and traveling to your faucet. But if the water chemistry changes, the corrosion controls can fail.

That's what happened in Flint after the Michigan Department of Environmental Quality told the Flint Water Treatment Plant not to maintain corrosion controls that had previously been in place before the city switched water sources in 2014.


There is nothing a water utility can do to completely prevent lead leaching from a lead service line.

Yanna Lambrinidou, water safety expert

The federal Safe Drinking Water Act requires water systems and state regulators to monitor lead levels coming out of people's faucets, and if 10 percent of samples have more than 15 parts per billion of lead, then the state has to evaluate its corrosion controls. And if that doesn't reduce the lead levels, then the law requires public water systems to begin replacing 7 percent of their lead service lines every year.

Even replacing the lines can be trouble, however, as the law only requires replacing the lines on public property -- replacing the portion of a lead service line on private property is up to the owner -- and it turns out that replacing just the public portion of a lead service line can cause lead levels to spike in a homeowner's water. That's because the work involved in replacing just part of a lead service line can jostle free lead in the the remaining part of the pipe.

(The Safe Drinking Water Act originally called for utilities to replace the entirety of a lead service line, but lobbying and a lawsuit by the American Water Works Association watered down the rule.)

"There is nothing a water utility can do to completely prevent lead leaching from a lead service line," said Yanna Lambrinidou, a water safety expert who teaches at Virginia Tech.

The EPA is currently considering changes to the Safe Drinking Water Act's lead rules, and an advisory panel has proposed a more proactive approach to replacing lead pipes. Instead of just waiting for higher levels of a deadly neurotoxin to show up in people's tap water, the proposal would encourage public water systems to go ahead and replace the pipes.

Lambrinidou was a member of the working group that crafted the recommendation, but she wound up dissenting because she believed it didn't do enough to force utilities to get lead pipes out of the ground.

"The rule needs to be such that it enforces actual lead service line replacement," Lambrinidou said.

What happened in Flint seems to show a weakness of the rule, since state regulators and the EPA agreed there was some ambiguity about whether Flint should have been required to implement corrosion controls. Snyder eventually admitted that his government had made a terrible mistake, and multiple state officials resigned, as did the EPA's regional administrator.

Flint reconnected to its original water source in October, and officials said yesterday there had been progress in the process of re-coating the interior of the city's aging pipes.

"Longer term, though, I think everyone understands we'd like to see those pipes replaced," Snyder said.

[DerekP Houston]

time to install a reverse osmosis unit at the house.

[1911cherry]

I thought the problem was poison water from a polluted river, When did pipe come into the equation?

[DCP]

I thought the problem was poison water from a polluted river, When did pipe come into the equation?

I think they found the lead pipes later and just threw it in. Lead pipes are all over the nation.
I had to laugh when son guy was holding lead pipes with gloves.

[Hardcast416taylor]

The latest `bright idea` to come from our GEEK governors office about this problem is to let the new water from Detroit re-coat the inside of the Flint pipes by adding phosphrous into the water. Wonder what that will do to your inards? The latest `guesstamation` to the cost and time frame to replace the pipes throughout Flint Is about $400 Million and up to 10 years! YESSIR! Flint really saved a pile of money by going off Detroit water and sucking up that `clean` river water and not treating it nor testing iot. The GM truck plant went off Flint water shortly after Flint switched over due to the water proved to be corrosive by its contaminants!Robert

[historicfirearms]

Maybe we can get some of these lead pipes. I've used them before and they make good boolits.

[Rick Hodges]

The problem was/is the Flint River is acidic. They switched from Detroit water to local Flint river water to save money and treated it themselves. They did not treat the high acidity. Lead water pipes are the norm in most parts of the nation that have had water for more than 60 years or so. They are safe, as calcium and other chemicals form a coating on the lead. It is stable and doesn't leach into the water.....unless exposed to acid, which eats through the calcium and leaches lead into the system. Whew! (Local water main breaks also allow a small amount of lead and gunk to get into the system, hence the run water for a few hours til it runs clear and boil water alerts. The pipes quickly recoat themselves with the calcium in the water.)
The EPA knew that Flint was not treating the water for acid and it would be a problem but said nothing....hence the EPA director for the area resigned. The state people missed it and thought that the few high lead samples taken were from when the water system was changed over from Detroit water system and where local main breaks were repaired and they believed they clear up in a matter of hours. They were wrong. They compounded the problem by trying to cover their asses by attacking the Drs. who were sounding the alarm. I don't know what they were thinking. Maybe they were hoping the problem would just go away. The head of the State Dept of Environmental Quality resigned and more heads will roll.
Currently 93% of the tests are lead free....
So..... the problem isn't lead pipes....it is acid being run through them. People hear "lead pipes" and react like it was the Ebola virus. Lead pipes were the norm for water systems for over a hundred years without problems. The Detroit system that they switched back from is full of lead pipes and mains.

[runfiverun]

nope it's a crisis.
I get a bunch of lead pipe to melt down every time they fix a water main here in town.
the city shops are right behind my house and someone keeps on dumping the pipe in the wrong place [like right over my fence]
one of these day's I will complain [when they stop]
I have to pound it flat to break all the calcium up that's inside the pipe but we have crazy hard water here and a lot of minerals besides calcium floating around in it.

they don't call this place soda springs for nothing, some of the springs nearby are actually soda water from the natural carbonation in them.
one area Is called sulpher springs and you know why [instantly] when you get there.

[starmac]

From the sounds of it, the lead pipes are the land or house owners property, between the water meter and the house, so why is this a government problem. If It is really a major health concern for those folks and they belive it, a few sticks of pvc would seem cheap, if I thought my families heath was at stake.
Then again, a few years ogo, you could buy all the two story houses you wanted in flint for 500 bucks a pop on ebay.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Clearly there is a problem. But one thing that makes a difference is that water which has been sitting in lead pipes overnight is likely to be more dangerous than water which has only been in them a short time. Advice sometimes given is for householders with lead piping on their own premises, pending replacement, to run the water for a few minutes before filling the kettle in the morning. That would be an argument for lead pipes under the street (which once seemed like a responsible investment in longevity of the system) to be particularly dangerous.

This is guesswork, but a coating of calcium carbonate might well eliminate the danger. But only alkaline water will provide that. You would think some way could be developed of depositing an insoluble coating. But if alkaline or neutral water is to be supplied, it won't be calcium carbonate.

[Freightman]

Lets see, The generation that put men on the moon grew up with leaded gasoline lead pipes and many other lead products, and they were brain damaged? come on it is an agenda they know it is something that they did so blame lead. This is MHO so beat me up but I don't trust the government or their scientist.

[bearcove]

I worked the National Labs some as a pipefitter, and the training for lead is like it is gonna kill you. It is bad stuff in paint when you grind or weld on it. It is then a particulate you breathe. That will raise your lead levels. But as a solid it is no biggie, right.

They can't see the difference. I told the guy teaching this training that I cast it, and had about 3000 lbs in my garage, and my highest lead level was a 4. 20 is a worry point if I recall.

They would turn my house into a hazmat site if it was managed by the gov't.

I say we should remove all lead pipe from the public water systems nationwide and recycle it into boolets, since we are among the few who can handle this dangerous material, safely that is.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Lets see, The generation that put men on the moon grew up with leaded gasoline lead pipes and many other lead products, and they were brain damaged?.

I don't suppose even the politicians were. They grew up with polio, smallpox and a great many diseases that were far more dangerous than they are today. I was born in an age when thousands died due to smog every winter - not individually identifiable, but a statistic, like leukaemia around Chernobyl. Someday - even today to some extent - people will marvel that we grew up when death from AIDS could result from one act of informal togetherness. But that doesn't mean the people of the mid-21st century will have greater physical or mental health than we do. With every one of those things, doing all we can to remain among the healthy makes good sense.

[Iowa Fox]

time to install a reverse osmosis unit at the house.

I think you're right!! We have our own well but the farm chemicals are polluting them in this state.

[bearcove]

RO is good and easy with fresh water. Don't let the "water guys" tell you that its hard. An average guy with basic skills can build a water maker to RO salt water, fresh is MUCH easier.

[Beagle333]

Pull them pipes out! I'll pay a buck a pound for it!!!

[bearcove]

NO NO NO! be about 25 cents a lb

[runfiverun]

after giving this a little thought.
the EPA's 'war on lead' would play right into flint's hands if they do this right.
their entire water delivery system could become a federal superfund sight and be replaced for them.
they just gotta play this whole crisis thing up enough to the media.
too bad the voting in ohio is coming up so soon, their 'plight' errr crisis would get a lot more traction with the media.

[bearcove]

Yep based on the "GOV'T" standards it is toxic stuff, MUST docon this mess. How much will it cost, OH! just women and children being contaminated, maybe its not that bad....

[.45Cole]

...I had to laugh when son guy was holding lead pipes with gloves.

"Mr Pansy refuses to touch the pipes without gloves on," is what the reporter said as they held the pipe together with leather gloves. Lead is for the most part absolutely insoluble in water with a pH of 7 and above. My guess is that the pH of the water in the river was below 7 and that dissolved the scale and then the lead. I would have thought that it would be somewhat easy to treat the pH level. Ever wonder where the oil that drips onto the road right next to the river goes? Most plants don't carbon filter water, and those hydrocarbons are minutely soluble in water.