Equipment advice to a new caster

[Fraxinus]

Hi all,
I’m going to start off with an apology- I know you must be constantly hit with these kinds of “help, I’m new threads”, but I feel like I’ve researched myself into a corner and need advice.
I’m looking to get into casting, and have been accumulating lead when I see it cheap the last couple months. I’ll be casting for a 460 S&W rifle (hunting in Indiana), and 45 acp. I’d like to do this on the (relatively) cheap.

I’m trying to decide on what sizing setup to go with- my plan has been to slowly accumulate gear, and for the first couple years go witha lee sizer die & hand lube (using LBT blue soft) boolits to be economical until I find a good deal on a used Star. I’m planning to go the lee, then Star route because of all the threads I see about alignment issues on RCBS/ Lyman sizers.

My problem: I went on to midway to buy a ladle & thermometer (accumulated enough lead & gear to start 'smelting' once I get these two things!), and they are having a 15% sale on everything RCBS. That, plus the 25% RCBS rebate for purchases over $300 makes in mighty tempting to pick up a RCBS sizer.

So, the question: how bad/ common are the alignment issues on RCBS sizers, really? Internet research makes it easy to be overly cautious(most people only talk about a product when they have problems) on gear. If I do have a problem, I’ve seen threads here mention using grease instead of the set-screw to alleviate it. Is it pretty consistent that this fix alleviates the problem?

What I don’t to do is drop $100 on an RCBS, only to kick myself in a year when I would rather be spending $200 on a used Star that does it right the first time. Please advise.

[gwpercle]

Welcome from Louisiana !

My experience with a Lyman 450 started in 1970. Best money I ever spent. The truth is they are not horrible and I question the " alignment " and "concentricity" issues. Mine go in and come out sized and lubed. Some people try to oversize or size down hardened rifle boolits that are long and might bend them, but that's not the machine's fault.
I do use a dab of lube to hold the nose punch in, but that's because I lost the pesky screw and the lube does keep it in place.
You will not have any issues with short fat handgun boolits like 45 acp and 460 S&W. Long slenderifle boolits maybe. I've never had any problems with 150 , 170 and 185 grain , 30 and 303 caliber rifle boolits.
Using the machine correctly is paramount, adjustments and operation need to be done per instructions.
Mine has never leaked, broken or required any replacement parts since 1970, Sunday I used it to lube and size 250 of the
Lee C358-158-SWC. It was 28 degrees out there and a 250 watt shop lamp set behind it got the lube flowing and kept my hands warm. If you can get a deal on a Lyman, get it , mine has done exceptional service. I have used the boolits lubed and sized by it to win three NRA bullseye match trophies and a first place in a G.I. 1911 Service Pistol match, so the Lyman can't be all that bad.
A lot of people have problems because of how they are doing something, not the unit itself .
I have never owned an RCBS , the Lyman 450 just keeps chugging along.
Gary

[gwpercle]

I thought for sure somebody who has a RCBS lube/sizer would have related their experiences with it. The RCBS unit LOOKS a whole lot like the Lyman, and most people seem to prefer RCBS stuff to Lyman ....So I would say if you can get a deal on the RCBS go for it. That rascal may take care of all your needs.
If you have any problems RCBS customer service is only a phone call away.
Gary

[Fraxinus]

Thanks for the advice. You have a good point about customer service- I've heard nothing about good things about RCBS CS. Given how much I shoot, the production differences between the Star & RCBS won't matter at all... as long as the boolits are concentric I'm satisfied.

Think it's time to make the plunge...

[AnthonyB]

I have a previously owned RCBS sizer, but have never used it. My original Lyman 450 does very well for small runs for rifle, and I use the Star for large runs of handgun bullets. I have accumulated two Lyman 45s and would not feel handicapped with them at all. Good luck finding a used Star for $200!
Tony

[Fraxinus]

From one Tony to another...

Thanks for the input. I know $200 is optimistic...there was one on here that needed some parts & TLC for $175 the other day... that being said it sold in about 10 minutes....

-Tony-

[lennies]

I've had my RCBS unit for almost 30 years. No issues at all. I have it mounted to a Lyman heater which makes it run that much easier. I think I've run it enough to say that it will serve you well. The ram and die cavities are bored in the same pass, so alignment is always correct. Mine uses a nut or cap to retain the sizing die and I think they still do it that way. The set screw retains the nose punch without issue. If others have an alignment issue, perhaps they deviate from the instructions. I have used both Lyman and RCBS top punches and I've made my own. It doesn't seem to matter. I have looked at the Saeco and like the taper they use to align their top punch. But I've never thought it has enough advantage to make me switch. I keep the linkage lubed with light oil and it stays covered when not in use to keep the dust off. Tens of thousands of bullets later, it works as good as when it was new.

[finattic]

I cannot help you with the rcbs sizer it self but I can tell you that lyman and rcbs sizing dies will work on either machine so you are not limited to just one or the other, My lyman 450 has done the trick for a long time but is retired since I bought the star since I only shoot pistol's.

[OptimusPanda]

I'm using the same setup as lennies. RCBS LAM2, Lyman heater. Both maybe 4 years old? Bought new. Never given me any trouble except the time the lube piston and o-ring came off which was my fault anyway (according to RCBS) they sent me a replacement no real questions asked. The die is held in place by a big nut/bushing. Mostly easy to change the dies it's sometimes a pain to change dies and get the nut threaded on right but it may be my impatience. I've probably lubed and sized 20,000 boolits by now on it and feel it was well worth it. Only thing I'd change is not buying the heater.

[Blanket]

with the calibers you listed, you will not see any difference between anything from a Lyman 45 to a new Magma in practical use

[gwpercle]

Another tip , I tend to favor flat point boolits, semi wad cutters, truncated cone , round flat, all of these I use a flat nose punch, I filled a RN with epoxy putty , let harden and sanded it dead flat. Using the flat punch eliminates the concentric problem. Sit the bullet square into the sizing die and the nose punch presses it straight down.
I see people talking about having problems changing dies, I never have, the threads are fine so you just have to thread them carefully. If you aren't carefull you can cross thread anything you unscrew , even a common garden hose . Again it's not the machine but the operator.
To be honest with you, I would favor a new RCBS or Lyman over a Star that was missing parts and need TLC....at least for my first lube sizer.
My first car was a 1955 Ford that I spent way more time trying to get and keep running than I ever drove. 1 day a week I drove it, the other 6 days we looked for parts and worked on that thing. That's what it seemed like anyways. I don't care for Fords any more.
Gary

[Fraxinus]

Wow, I didn't expect this much consensus... awesome to hear. I went ahead & ordered the RCBS sizer & most of the other bits & pieces I'll need to start casting to take advantage of the deal. Thanks for the help!

Gwpercle- that's a great idea about modifying the punch... I'll keep it in mind...

[Artful]

I have RCBS (first model) - Lyman 450 - Star and some Lee push thru sizer dies - they all work just fine - Only advantage of the Star is Speed ie higher production and it allows you to do Bevel Base Boolits without lube getting onto the base. If you plan on shooting Bullseye or IPSC competitively (ie 50K+ rounds per year) keep looking for your STAR, otherwise you will be very happy with your new RCBS.

[wv109323]

I am going to rock the boat.
I don't think there is an alignment problem with the RCBS or Lyman. You need the correct top punch so the bullet is pushed straight down into the sizing die. A top punch that matches your bullet nose keeps the bullet straight.
You did not say your expected volume of bullets to cast per month or year. If you are a Bullseye shooter and will cast 3-4,000 bullets per year I would highly recommend the Star.
I have two Stars and an RCBS. I only use the RCBS because I do not have all the sizing dies for the Stars. If it is 9MM, .357 or .45 ACP it goes through my Star.
Also if you go with the RCBS or Lyman I would not use bevel based bullets. The lube has a tendency to get under the bullet base and needs cleaned frequently.
As a suggestion I would look at Powder Coating my bullets if my volumes were low. You can get set up to do PC for the price of a toaster oven and $30.00. If you need to size you can get a Lee push-thru die.
With PC you do not need to worry about lead hardness or proper lube. Lead hardness may be a big thing with the .460 S&W.
I think PC is the future of cast bullets. The only drawback is the bullets need to be baked. A toaster oven limits the amount of bullets you can process at one time.

[gwpercle]

Wow, I didn't expect this much consensus... awesome to hear. I went ahead & ordered the RCBS sizer & most of the other bits & pieces I'll need to start casting to take advantage of the deal. Thanks for the help!

Gwpercle- that's a great idea about modifying the punch... I'll keep it in mind...

You can also custom fit a nose punch to any cast boolit with a small ball of epoxy putty. I use putty because it doesn't run like epoxy glue , voice of experience here. set boolit in die , lube or grease nose so it doesn't stick, small ball of putty into nose punch, lower down onto boolit and press boolit into sizer just enough to make sure everything is perfectly straight , let set up and you have a perfect fit. Can always remove the epoxy if you want to refit to another boolit. I made a fitted 38 wadcutter a good 25 years ago and I'm still using it for wadcutter loading.
Gary

[Fraxinus]

I am going to rock the boat.
I don't think there is an alignment problem with the RCBS or Lyman. You need the correct top punch so the bullet is pushed straight down into the sizing die. A top punch that matches your bullet nose keeps the bullet straight.
You did not say your expected volume of bullets to cast per month or year. If you are a Bullseye shooter and will cast 3-4,000 bullets per year I would highly recommend the Star.
I have two Stars and an RCBS. I only use the RCBS because I do not have all the sizing dies for the Stars. If it is 9MM, .357 or .45 ACP it goes through my Star.
Also if you go with the RCBS or Lyman I would not use bevel based bullets. The lube has a tendency to get under the bullet base and needs cleaned frequently.
As a suggestion I would look at Powder Coating my bullets if my volumes were low. You can get set up to do PC for the price of a toaster oven and $30.00. If you need to size you can get a Lee push-thru die.
With PC you do not need to worry about lead hardness or proper lube. Lead hardness may be a big thing with the .460 S&W.
I think PC is the future of cast bullets. The only drawback is the bullets need to be baked. A toaster oven limits the amount of bullets you can process at one time.

Sigh.... and so another research-marathon ensues. I had glanced at the coatings sub-forum but not given it much thought.

Thanks for the input. My shooting volume is pretty low- probably around 1000 rounds/ year for the 45 acp, which is far & away the highest. I stumbled onto the thread about copper alloys in the lead sub-forum, if (when) I ran into trouble with the 460 & regular cast boolits I was going to explore the copper world. Some preliminary research makes me think PC would add another option to the table. And, a powder coat setup & Lee sizing dies would certainly be a more affordable way to get started than the RCBS.

Gotta love thinking about returning a product that's still in the mail....

So much to learn.

[wv109323]

You can keep the RCBS and use it as a sizer without lube. You may want to lube some and PC some. Sorry I just got to be honest. If you want opinions they are 10 cents a bushel, when not on sale.

[lightload]

I have had no trouble with my Lyman 450 over the last 25 years.

[Dragonheart]

I also used a Lyman 450 for years with no issues. However, there is a way you can get into casting and not buy a lube/sizer at all and that is to try powder coating your bullets then use a inexpensive Lee push through sizing die on a standard reloading press. The only major expense to try powder coating is a dedicated toaster oven to cure the coating. Once you see the benefits of powder coating you won't lube.

[Fraxinus]

Thanks for all the suggestions. After doing a fair bit of research, I've decided to stay with my RCBS lube-a-matic purchase & start my casting career w/ traditional boolit lube. Thinkin LBT Blue Soft to start with.

Powder coat does sound really enticing... I think I'll certainly be exploring that route at some point, particularly if my 460 S&W becomes a leading problem-child. At that point, the RCBS will still be there as a sizer (WV109323 brought up the same point).