Plain Base Gas Checks

[Tailhunter]

When installing plain base gc's I seem to have a problem with keeping them from tearing and or smearing. I even size them first apply the check and resize. Still seems to happen. Aluminum is from Pepsi can's.
They are pushed thru check first. NOE sizer die.
Any suggestions?

[Seeker]

Might be the thickness of the pepsi can aluminum. I got some pb checks from sagebrush, a member here and I do know, they aren't very thick. Maybe he'll respond.

[Tenbender]

Sage PB checks are a joke. They go on crooked. You would have to learn how to shoot around corners !

[Sagebrush7]

I use .007 litho and .007 half hard aluminum. The guys in Georgia that use thousands of pb checks claim you have to size first then apply pb check. Made some .454 pb checks and found you have to cone shape push thru sizers and polish them very smooth at the mouth. I found you can finger smear the check with STP and get three out of four before they would tear and smear. You are displacing lead when you using pb checks. Best I cam measure your bullet should be only .001 larger than your sizing diameter. I don't shoot them! Plain base bullets have worked for over 45 years.

Might be the thickness of the pepsi can aluminum. I got some pb checks from sagebrush, a member here and I do know, they aren't very thick. Maybe he'll respond.

[oldcanadice]

I make my pb checks using .003" coke cans and have no problems seating for 357 with a Lyman 450 and an RCBS .359 die. This is with 173gr Lyman/Kieth 358429, a 102gr Lee, and even some commercial bevel bases. You may need to use a larger die for initial seating or perhaps rig a Lyman/RCBS-type die that supports the base as the check is seated.

[Beagle333]

I had problems with them ripping and smearing and this is how I fixed it....
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...-Al&highlight=

Of course your mileage may vary....
Good luck!!

[JWFilips]

OK ..educate Me:
what the heck are plain base gas checks! If the boolit & base are to size Where does the Gas check place it!

[Beagle333]

Plain base checks are just a little bigger than the boolit and the sizing die swages it onto the base. After installation, if you pull one off, the base will look just like a gas check boolit before applying a check.
It's just to give more support to the boolit to keep gas where it should be ("in check" behind the boolit) if you want to push one faster than usual or use a much softer alloy than you could can regularly get away with. Most folks would never need one using normal alloys at normal speeds. (at least in revolvers. I don't load for bottom feeders, so I can't say what it'll do for someone's "nine".)

[Seeker]

Sage PB checks are a joke. They go on crooked. You would have to learn how to shoot around corners !

I guess you must have got some bad ones. I've used plenty with no problems. I even figured out a way to apply them with no smearing. They end up looking just like a regular gas checked boolit. In fact..I just ordered a thousand about an hour ago. They'll go on as straight as you put them on. If you have a bunch that are a joke, er, I mean junk, I gladly pay the shipping if you want to send them my way.

[gunoil]

its your die, no good. Youll haf to rework it at top.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I use homemade (patmarlins) popcan PB GC on soft alloy(BHN=9) SWC HP boolits.
I have no problem seating them before sizing, no problem sizing them in a Lyman 45.
I suspect the ease of use I encounter, is due to the lube residue that is present on the die as well as the soft alloy. I fairly sure a hard alloy will likely cause some problems with the PB GC during sizing.

[Tailhunter]

Im going to try some softer alloy.

[PatMarlin]

Sounds like the transition mouth chamfer edge on the sizing die, or hard alloy Pop cans usually always work.

Keep working with it. Just like casting, sometimes you just don't get good results out of the gate.

[Tailhunter]

Softened the lead to a 16 BHN and it all works like a charm.

Now to see if they shoot.

[PatMarlin]

There ya go Mark!

With the right pressure load, boolit OD size and fit, be prepared to be amazed... PB's rock!

[SniderBoomer]

I sometimes use a hard alloy but when I want to use a PB check on them I make sure I apply the check immediately after the boolits are cast. Immediately, soon as they are cool enough. I never get PB check tears whether using coil or beer cans. With a fully hardened boolit, I wouldn't even try, it simply doesn't work reliably.

If using a push-thru die, size and crimp-on by passing thru check (base) first. I wipe the leading edge of the check with a smear of Ben's Red or whatever lube first.

The 'push-in push-down' sizers like the Lyman, RCBS and Saeco luber-sizers do a MUCH better job (when properly aligned) as they seat the boolit base flat against that PB check with great results, and of course allow some handy bump-swaging when needed - again, easy as pie when the boolits are fresh cast.

Just bought my fourth Pat Marlin PB die, yes they are slower to use, but in my humble experience, when you get the method learned, they are perfect and give an edge.

[PatMarlin]

Yep- After casting, size and lube.

Many threads on the life and hardness of alloys here at CB..

Soft after cast, then gets progressively harder over time, then a progression of getting softer again.

Good tips Snider.

[Seeker]

The PB gas checks from Sagebrush showed up today. I went ahead and popped some on some 200 swc I had in a bin. They work perfectly. These are bullets that were water quenched about 2 wks. ago, sized right after casting but unlubed. I run them base first thru a Lee push thru sizing die. As you can see, they look great with no smearing and they are straight. The 2 boolits on the right are without checks. I can push these pretty hard through my Blackhawk convertible with the acp cylinder. I wont need to use water dropped boolits for that, but these were the only ones I had laying around to show that the pb checks go on great. If I can push them on a hard boolit, then they'll work for sure on air cooled. So much for them being a joke. Just for the record. I orderd 1000 of these from Sagebrush, but these in the pic. are the ones that tenbender claimed were trash and sent back to Sagebrush. Sagebrush sent them on to me to try after he added some to the bag to cover what tenbender had used. I got a 100 or so bonus pb checks. Sagebrush is a stand up guy and his checks work. Just thought you all should know. I'm not taking anything away from the other check makers so don't take this post as a negative towards them, please. Sages' were the first I've ever tried and they worked so I'll stand by him.

[longbow]

Maybe a little off topic but can anyone tell me how well PB checks work at rifle velocities? I am thinking .30 cal. at 2000 FPS+/- a bit.

I am seeing lots of posts about PB checks for handgun boolits but not for rifles... or at least at higher end velocities.

Thanks,
Longbow

[reed1911]

I think that is only due to the higher prevalence of PB molds for pistols. They work just fine for rifle too.