Marksmanship and casting

[Blackwater]

We were once called "A nation of riflemen." I haven't heard that in quite a while. I've always been an accuracy nut of sorts, I guess, because when I was a kid, I quickly learned that it was a lot more satisfying to hit what I was shooting at than just throwing a bullet in the general direction of the target. Then I tried to get speedier in my ability to deliver a bullet to the target. I had some degree of success in both, but time constraints drew the process out a bit. I've never been the fastest or most accurate shot around, but I did at least get quick and accurate enough to never be embarrassed too badly, even with the best shots I've been able to find.

Since we casters can shoot so much more for a given amount of outlay, we are in a rather unique position to really get as good as our abilities will allow, but the methods we use to get better also matter, and in some ways determine just how good we can wind up being.

My question to you, and especially to you newbies here, is whether you're using the economy of cast to really apply yourself to getting to be better shots, and if so, how you're going about doing that. There's a sort of generalized ethic in our culture today that all that's necessary is to just "be safe" (which is ALWAYS important, of course) and just keep shooting and we'll get "good enough." I've never been satisfied with that, and always kept thinking that I wanted to be as sure as I could that I could get that fleeting shot at a quickly departing whitetail or squirrel or whatever, and in a SD situation, that I'd be the first with a good center hit.

When I started wearing a gun for my job, I took it seriously, and that spurred me to do some serious practicing down on the lower 40 at multiple targets at unknown but likely ranges, and I'd try to shoot both fast and accurately, and get the gun out of the holster as quickly as I could without shooting myself in the butt or knee or leg. That last part was the most daunting of the lot, but with good, smooth moves and decent judgment, I still have all my body parts intact, and got to be pretty decent, and fairly fast, but more importantly (maybe?) I got to be pretty darned accurate, even in unaimed fire. That made me feel a lot better, and enabled me to enter possibly dangerous situations with a good deal of assurance I'd come out of it OK. That's no small thing sometimes, too!

So what are you guys, particularly you newer casters, doing to get really good with your guns?

[Love Life]

Shoot handguns at distances farther than 7 yards and rifles at distances farther than 50 yards. Make the shots count, and generally just apply myself. I also get into the weeds for my brass prep, bullet casting/sorting, and load development. This goes for both rifle and pistol.

I also bench all my guns for initial development to remove as much shooter error as possible. This lets me get a good gauge for my guns mechanical accuracy and my loads.

This way I am reasonably sure that the pulled shot is me and not due to the ammo. I also practice the fundamentals, and constantly repeat them in my head as I'm shooting.

[outdoorfan]

For me it was when I upgraded to a progressive press that allowed me to load enough ammo (lead, of course) to fling em down range with reckless abandon. I learned that I would never be able to get faster if I didn't have the freedom to go through quite a few rounds in a short amount of time. The extra work/time that loading on a single stage or turret press made for me discouraged me from doing that.

[M-Tecs]

I haven't been new since the early 70's

As a kid I cast and reloaded for a 7th Calvary Reenactment Group. I shot, cast and reloaded a lot. I was viewed as very good. I though I was a very big fish in the pond. It was not until I started shooting competitively that fully understood that I was a medium sized fish in a small pond.

If you want to get really good limit your shooting with people that have equal or lesser abilities than you. Maximize your shooting time with people that have more abilities than you.

Limit your practice to precision shooting and stay away from the speed type events until your have mastered the fundamentals of precision shooting.

I can teach precision shooters to go fast, however, the reverse is not always true. Some speed shooters are very difficult (if not impossible) to teach precision shooting to.

And most important. Learn to accurately call every shot.

[bangerjim]

I'm not new, but............

1) cast good well-filled boolits with flat bottoms

2) cast lots of 'em!

3) Develop load data using Lyman's CB Handbook as starters

4) powder coat everything - makes ID'ing development loads easy

5) shoot pistols - 20-30 feet for best groupings for me

6) shoot rifles - 60-150 feet for best groupings for me

7) use the same pistol powder or rifle powder for repetition in performance results

8) use a good bench rest when absolute accuracy testing needed

9) like golf - my only competitor is me.....for what I shoot

Works for me

banger

[Wolfer]

I'll throw out some things that I think have helped me. When I was young I would say I was a spray and pray shooter. I pretty quickly learned that very rarely works. I never had a teacher but I like to shoot and what I've learned I had to learn the hard way.

At 17 I got married and my in laws were all good hunting shots. Both with rifle and pistol. They were the type people who never seemed to want to help you shoot better as they were pretty competive.
However if you constantly shoot with people who are better than you it helps you to try harder. They all seemed to have good eye/hand coordination which I did not. I don't believe I ever got as good as they were but let's say I got a lot better.

In later years I got into bench rest type shooting even though I've never owned a bench rest type rifle. My heart beats hard and I can see it in the scope and no matter the gun I can't consistently shoot much under 3/4 MOA.

Any more I shoot off the bench to work up loads or to adjust sights but otherwise I shoot in field positions. This gives me a lot of confidence in wheather I can make the shot or not.

Ive tried every field position that I've ever read or heard about. Some worked for me while others didn't. We each have to find what works for us and practice enough that when the situation arises we can get in a suitable/ shootable position immediately without thinking about it.

Many times I've been hunting with someone and when game is spotted they will get in a position that nobody could shoot well from. Generally these people have shot a lot from the bench but rarely if ever practiced field positions.

I don't consider myself to be a good shot. However I won't shoot unless I feel I can make the shot. The window of opportunity I need to get a shot is very small.

I believe many put too much emphasis on their group size from a bench as opposed to their group size without a bench. For most of us there's a considerable difference.

[Petrol & Powder]

When I was really into rifle shooting I was able to significantly shrink my group sizes by very careful reloading. A lot of case prep, very close attention to detail and select cases dedicated to a particular rifle. I was able to take good factory rifles that had some tweaking and turn them into excellent rifles capable of one hole groups. My efforts with rifles was primarily accuracy with economy a secondary goal. I still do that but not to the same extent I once did.

Handguns were a different story. That started with economy as a goal. As time went on accuracy became equally as important. Casting represents a fraction of my reloading history but I'll admit that casting for revolvers has opened my eyes to better accuracy. I can make a very consistent cartridge that costs less than a factory cartridge.

For me, reloading for shotguns is almost entirely done for economy. I know waterfowl hunters that reload for steel shot. They operate right on the edge of acceptable pressure limits and they do it more for performance than cost. I do it to break targets without breaking the bank.

I've learned a lot over the decades. Some from my own experiences and some from knowledgeable people. That may be the best benefit gained from reloading and casting.

[dtknowles]

I really learned to shoot in High School. I was on the Rifle Team. We shot 4 position 22 LR at 50 feet. This taught me a lot of trigger, sight picture, breath control discipline. It was harder for me and still is today to break that discipline and shoot faster and rely on muscle memory and training. Now for rapid fire I have learned to let it flow, you don't have to put every shot in the middle of the X ring.

Loading my own ammo is for precision. If I want to shoot up a bunch fast, I will by factory stuff.

Tim

[tazman]

I was taught the very basics of rifle shooting when I was 10 by my father. We lived in the country so he didn't spend much time teaching me proper form as he had a business to run. As such, I never got really good. I didn't learn about trigger control until much later in life when I considered competitive shooting. I very quickly learned that I didn't have the steadiness or nerves(let alone the equipment) to do that well enough to compete.
I reload now for handgun. I am finally learning trigger control instead of the quick yank when the sights cross the center. This is tough at my age but I am getting better. The loads I make with my cast boolits are more accurate than I am so all is good.

[dragon813gt]

Handguns out to 500m
Rifles out to 1000m
Go big or go home

I honestly have very little time to practice. It's killing what skills I did have. But w/ a 19mo at home and traveling for work family comes before anything else.

This time of year sucks anyway. Real feel was 2 degrees today and I'm not practicing in it. It's bad enough I have to work outside in it. I will freely admit I'm a fair weather hunter and enjoy early archery when it's warm out. I should probably move south :laugh:

[Rockwell]

The tone used by the OP is why I rarely bother visiting here any more. Calling folks out as "newbies", implying that someone new to casting isn't practicing enough. Who needs blowhards like that? Not me.

[jsizemore]

Being involved in a shooting club, I discovered that there's any number of reasons that folks shoot. Just because it wasn't my discipline didn't mean it wasn't important to the other members. I figured as long as they were shooting, it was good for the club and shooting sports in general.

[leadman]

Rockwell, I don't think anyone was being called out. The OP is just communicating what is on his mind with a question.

General posting. I have had many things preventing me from casting as much as I like and shooting much at all recently. I do notice a decline in my shooting and hope to correct this soon.
I feel the double cataracts that are developing in my eyes are also affecting my shooting. The doctor said they are not bad enough to be removed yet.
I am also thinking about thinning my gun collection to the guns that either are special to me or I use for carry or hunting. I load for 51 different cartridges now and find it difficult to cast and load enough to feed these. A couple different groups of guns I have four or more that shoot the same cartridge.

[Scharfschuetze]

It's only semantics Rockwell. I read nothing degrading or vile in it. As you read his post, you also saw that he earned a pay check underarms, which only a few do. It's a common enough term in most professions that are under arms and as nothing is given for free in those occupations, a newbie, rookie, cherry or *** has to earn his respect. You don't get a trophy for just showing up and if you have thin skin, you probably won't last long.

I'll also add that I moderated for about 10 years at another forum and I can attest that this is one of the most benign and helpful forum for shooters.

Back on topic: Having earned retirement checks in two professions under arms, I always had more ammo than I could possibly use, particularly on military or police shooting teams. Still, I got into casting soon after I returned from VN as I was and I still am an inveterate experimenter. Cast boolits give me another opportunity for such endevours and the satisfaction of ringing a ram at 500 meters with boolits and ammo that you made yourself is quite a reward for me. I don't reload to save money, but I do get to shoot more for the same dollar than those who don't.

If you add up the time you spend smelting, casting and sizing and compare it to your average working wage, you'll soon realize that buying factory cast or jacketed bullets is probably cheaper. But where is the fun in that? Casting is just an enjoyable hobby and a means to an end for me.

[44man]

The tone used by the OP is why I rarely bother visiting here any more. Calling folks out as "newbies", implying that someone new to casting isn't practicing enough. Who needs blowhards like that? Not me.

A Newbie is one here for the first time. Not a new loader. It just means they found us.

[Hickok]

I thoroughly enjoy shooting/casting/reloading/hunting. I keep at it to become more proficient. I want to keep improving. Shooting well involves repetition, timing, muscle memory, breathing techniques, hand and eye coordination, etc. Practice, practice, practice.

If you don't use it, you loose it.

My wife says she can tell if I had a good day at the range or a bad day, just by the mood I am in when I get home.

[Dave C.]

My signature says it all. I shoot my own cast bullets.

[gwpercle]

I'm not sure marksmanship is a factor any longer. From what I see at the local range both dads and sons seem obsessed with seeing how fast they can fire ammunition. The thought of a bullseye target and cloverleaf groups isn't even a consideration. None of them seem to have any idea of where the rounds are striking.

[dtknowles]

You rarely see anyone shooting a rifle offhand and never sitting or prone. All they do is shoot from a rest.

Tim

[DerekP Houston]

I found my aim increased once I shrunk my target down. For me pistol range depends on the gun I'm shooting. DAO snubs/ccw type pocket pistols I keep around 5-7 yards, longer barrels are 10-15yrds. I really like the 2" reactive paint dot targets, feels like I get a good number for my money and I can stick tons of them over the 1 free target from the range fee.

Rifles I shoot off sandbags seated at the range. Haven't gotten a fancy setup or anything yet just use whatever is available.