Thompson center molds

[54bore]

February 7, 2007
below are a list of facts on t/c mould blocks i hope they are found to be useful.
1. T/C DID NOT MAKE A 58 CAL MAXI HUNTER MOULD FOR SALE, BUT THEY DO SELL THE CAST BULLETS.
2. T/C MOULDS WERE MADE FOR A SHORT TIME THROUGH BY SHILOH, UNTIL BUSINESS PROBLEMS BETWEEN T/C AND SHILOH ERUPTED.
3. T/C ALSO HAD FOR A EXTREMELY SHORT PERIOD OHAUS PRODUCE MOULDS FOR THEM.
3. T/C WOULD PUT NEW LABELS OVER OLD ONES ON THE MOULD BOXES WHEN THEY NEEDED TO. SO SOME OF THE BOXES HAVE A LABEL UNDER, CAREFULLY REMOVING THE TOP LABEL SOMETIMES REVEALS RARE EARLY BOXES OR MISPRINTS.
4. T/C MOULD HANDLES ORIGINALLY HAD BRASS FINISHES, WHICH USUALLY WORE AWAY EASILY. NEW HANDLES WITH BRASS ARE RARE.
5. OLD SHILOH MOULDS AND HANDLES WILL INTERCHANGE WITH T/C MOULDS AND HANDLES.

[54bore]

I recently purchased a mold from Newton here on the forum and after getting it I found that it doesn't match the TC maxi ball that our deceased friend from years ago casted for my dad, I have been trying to figure out exactly what mold I have? I've done quite a bit of research and stil can't figure it out? It is an aluminum mold, the exterior looks exactly like the TC molds but the boolit it casts definately look different? Hopefully Newton will see this and post the pics of the mold and the bullet comparison pics I sent him, the mold I got from him is marked 54 CAL on the bottom halves of the mold and the numbers on the top halves are marked 2252, I like the looks of the bullet it drops but they are definately different than the TC maxi balls our friend cast years ago, I noticed 3 different 54 cal TC maxi ball molds that recently sold on eBay and I closely examined the cavity in the pics of all 3 molds and they look identical to the old bullets our friend cast, all 3 of the molds on eBay were marked MA 54 on the top halves of the mold blocks and had a series of matching numbers on the bottom halves, the bottom half numbers matched per set but were different on all 3 molds, but the one thing they all 3 shared was the MA 54 on the top halves, can anyone shed any light on this? And what I have? I will see if I can get Newton to post the pics, I don't know how to do that yet? Thank you guys in advance, as you can see from the top post I dug up some info but that was all I could find, did TC change the maxi ball design somewhere along the line? Thanks again and look forward to any info you guys might have

[fouronesix]

Boy oh boy is my memory getting fuzzy! I think I remember the 54 cal Maxiball available in at least two weights. Something like- 400 gr and 430 gr. Could these be the differences you are seeing?

[The Lyman Black Powder Handbook- 2nd Edition, 2001 lists a 530 gr Maxi in the load data section - at first I thought at error. But looks like the 530 gr Maxiball was designed to take advantage of the faster twists becoming available in the inlines] A much more recent T/C catalog clearly shows Maxiballs in three weights- 365, 430 and 530. And the image posted in the catalog shows a Maxiball very similar to the "unknown" in this thread. These in the catalog are the yellow pre-lubed variety. No mention is made about the manufacture nor if molds are available and I don't know if the molds for these obviously "different" Maxiballs were ever available through T/C. Also may account for why this 530 gr weight appears in the more recent 2001 Lyman manual and not in the earlier ones.

Both T/C and Lyman offered Maxiball molds. The Lyman molds are iron and the T/C molds aluminum. As you posted, the T/C molds were not made by T/C but contracted to both Ohaus and Shiloh.

I also, think that mold makers like NEI, Saeco, Accurate and maybe others have their own Maxiball designs.

[54bore]

Boy oh boy is my memory getting fuzzy! I think I remember the 54 cal Maxiball available in at least two weights. Something like- 400 gr and 430 gr. Could these be the differences you are seeing?

[The Lyman Black Powder Handbook- 2nd Edition, 2001 even lists a 530 gr Maxi in the load data section - but it appears to be an error and probably should read 430 gr.]

Both T/C and Lyman offered Maxiball molds. The Lyman molds are iron and the T/C molds aluminum. As you posted, the T/C molds were not made by T/C but contracted to both Ohaus and Shiloh.

I weighed both boolits and the old original one that our friend cast weighed 410 grains and the ones from my mold weigh 425 so what you say is definately possible, the thing that throws me off is how different they look? I talked to Newton this morning and he hasn't been around internet service to post the pictures yet.

[triggerhappy243]

does your bullet look like the one on the left or the one on the right?

[triggerhappy243]

[QUOTE=fouronesix;3510513]Boy oh boy is my memory getting fuzzy! I think I remember the 54 cal Maxiball available in at least two weights. Something like- 400 gr and 430 gr. Could these be the differences you are seeing?


actually, T/C listed 3 different bullet weights for the 50 and the 54. I have an older catalog that offered the 3 different weights in already cast slugs.

[54bore]

Attachment 158574Attachment 158574

[54bore]

Attachment 158575

[54bore]

Triggerhappy243, that does look like mine! What the heck is it? My first attempt at putting a picture up, looks like I got it! Other than hitting upload twice and doubling up on the bullet picture.

[54bore]

The boolit on the right is the old original one from our friend years ago and the one on the left is mine from the mold I got from forum member Newton, that's the mold in the second picture

[newton]

Looks like you got the picture up. Sorry for being late to the thread. I hope someone on here can say for certainty who makes these molds. If it helps anyone figure this out, I have the maxi-hunter mold that looks just like the one above as far as what the mold looks like(obviously different shape, hp, and mold numbers).

[fouronesix]

I weighed both boolits and the old original one that our friend cast weighed 410 grains and the ones from my mold weigh 425 so what you say is definately possible, the thing that throws me off is how different they look? I talked to Newton this morning and he hasn't been around internet service to post the pictures yet.

After looking at the picture, it certainly doesn't look like one of the original T/C designs by either T/C or Lyman that always have the steep shoulder angle grooves. Plus the grooves of the unknown mold are very deep. The mold looks like a "factory" project though. Could be from a small run of custom molds made in that design- kind of a modified Maxiball? Or could be a "one of" custom mold, designed by an individual- similar to what can be done through Mountain Molds.

Curious- what are the diameters of the three drive bands? T/C Maxiballs have a base and body band diameter about equal to the nominal bore diameter with a top band diameter a few thous larger that requires engraving into the lands when loading.

[fouronesix]

[QUOTE=triggerhappy243;3511419]

Boy oh boy is my memory getting fuzzy! I think I remember the 54 cal Maxiball available in at least two weights. Something like- 400 gr and 430 gr. Could these be the differences you are seeing?


actually, T/C listed 3 different bullet weights for the 50 and the 54. I have an older catalog that offered the 3 different weights in already cast slugs.

Since you have the catalog- why not scan and post the pictures and weights. Or at least describe the design differences and list the weights… to help get at the questions posed by the OP.

[54bore]

I will go measure it now, I know the bullet fits EXTREMELY tight in mine and my dads guns, I have a TC new englander and my dads gun is a TC renegade, I was out at there place the other day showing my dad the difference in the bullets, he got his gun out and we test fit the odd one from my mold and he couldn't get the base band started by hand? We didn't want to force it since we had no plans of going out and shooting, then dad tried the old original bullet and it went in With very little resistance to the top band (I think they call the driving band?) dad looked at me and said perfect.

[54bore]

I'm getting between 540 and 545 on the base band, the slight variance is coming from me slowly turning the bullet in my stainless dial calipers and when I reach the boolit seem, I'm getting 542 on the second band, and m getting 545 to 549 on the top band (driving band?)

[54bore]

I have only poured 10 or 12 bullets from the mold, I stil haven't had a chance to shoot them, so i have no kind of range report

[fouronesix]

I'm getting between 540 and 545 on the base band, the slight variance is coming from me slowly turning the bullet in my stainless dial calipers and when I reach the boolit seem, I'm getting 542 on the second band, and m getting 545 to 549 on the top band (driving band?)

OK, it sounds like whomever made the mold or designed it used the same theory as the original T/C where the base and shank bands could be started by hand… with the top band requiring a short starter to start. Actually, that design theory is a good one. It allows good alignment during the starting process and gives best chance for base band to fully obturate into grooves when fired. Your best bet is to use pure lead (or as soft as possible alloy) and use a soft lube like Crisco in the bullet grooves. Try with charges starting at about 50 gr BP up to maybe 80 gr. BP. Then experiment with fiber card or hard felt over powder wad. Clean well between shooting sessions. And watch for leading. Even though leading is not common in these it can happen and usually shows up between where the bullet is seated and up the bore a few inches. Might be able to "feel" any lead in that area with a tight jagged patch when cleaning or might notice lead slivers/flakes on tight patch during cleaning.

My experience with the Maxiball design in 54 caliber is very good in regular T/C guns with 48" twist. But, as you approach the heavier charges, the recoil off the bench becomes real- especially in small guns like the Renegade that can really thump the cheek.

[newton]

I think that using pure lead is a must for this. I have tried WW lead before and it was a bear to try and put down the barrel. Also, lead properties will effect the dimensions which will also show itself with how hard it is to get down the bore.

Still would be nice to know who made the mold though. I will try my best to remember and dig out its brother tonight and take a picture. I am not sure if it shows well, but both the molds are aluminum.

[54bore]

I think that using pure lead is a must for this. I have tried WW lead before and it was a bear to try and put down the barrel. Also, lead properties will effect the dimensions which will also show itself with how hard it is to get down the bore.

Still would be nice to know who made the mold though. I will try my best to remember and dig out its brother tonight and take a picture. I am not sure if it shows well, but both the molds are aluminum.

I fully agree on the use of PURE lead! I have 100 pounds of pure lead in my basement to work with, this mold casts a REALLY nice bullet! Like I said they r a tight fit but I'm sure it won't b a problem when lubed and actually seating the bullet, dad and I just roughly sat one on the muzzle and it wouldn't start without some force, where the old bullet could b pushed in to the front driving band. Hopefully triggerhappy243 pops back on here and comments, It sure looks like the bullet he pictured is the same as mine, maybe he will know who makes the mold and more about it? It's definately a different bullet than the old ones we have

[swheeler]

54bore; thanks for posting this. I had read in a gun rag that TC molds were being made by Rapine. I guess myths can be found anywhere!