Help me decide on a BP cartridge or Ball and cap revolver

[berksglh]

Ive been reloading for almost 20, and casting for 2-3 years. Casting for 45ACP in a 1911, 9mm for buddies, 300AAC for a bolt action and 223 for my DPMS AR-15 all with great accuracy. I enjoy casting, reloading and powder coating almost as much as shooting.

Ive also made pyrotechnic grade BP in my ball mill for my own fireworks, so I'm intrigued by BP guns now.

Been debating between a BP cartridge or picking up a Pietta Model 1858 New Army Target .44 Caliber Black Powder Revolver.

Not certain if Id venture into using my own sulfur based BP or store bought alternatives..

Ive only used push through sizers, pan lube, and switched to powder coating.

Give me your thoughts and opinions.

Cleaning, casting, cartridges, cap and ball, lube, paper cartridges.....

Dave.

[flyingmonkey35]

You can't loose with a new army revolver's.

I have one and just bought a traditions revolver loading press for it. Makes loading the cylinder a breeze. And its off the gun so way safer.


Or if you can afford it buy a bulnderbuss.

A single shot cap n ball (dueling) pistol. Is fun

Regardless of what type of bp you use. Its all needs to be cleaned well after shooting.

[carbine]

I have been shooting BP almost exclusively (some .22 RF) for 35 years. The revolver only require oversize lead ball, powder, caps and wonder wads or grease.
You may have to raise the front sight to shoot to point of aim.

Long Guns, your choice. Accuracy at long range 45-70, plinking 44-40. Cases, prep, heads powder, primers eazy peazy

[TXGunNut]

Pick one, the rest will follow, lol. I love my cap & ball revolvers, you can load and shoot one as long as you want to for just a few dollars worth of powder, primers and lead.

[Nobade]

Hint...that 1911 45 ACP makes a great black powder rig. Just use BP compatible bullet lube and as much FFFg as you can get to fit. I run mine with my homemade powder and it is just as accurate as smokeless loads, and a ton more fun.

-Nobade

[berksglh]

Ive seen posts on BP1911's, and have been thinking of trying it just for fun and to screw with people at the range, but would rather have a dedicated BP gun.

I was never a revolver person, i just don't like them. Never liked asparagus as a kid, or beer or wine as a young adult. Things have changed.

For some odd reason, a BP revolver is just calling to me to come get one.

Leaning towards the Pietta 1858 New Army target, mainly cause there easy to find, and when on sale, decent price. I like the look of them as well.

Now blued, or stainless?

[Tracy]

I recommend the Pietta '58; I've had two of them and still have one. Blue or stainless is a personal choice. I prefer blue because I like the aged patina it acquires with use, and because they are more traditional and less expensive. IMHO the stainless is not the huge improvement some claim, because you still have to clean it thoroughly after you shoot it.

BTW, keep an eye out for an affordable Ruger Old Army as well. That is the best black powder revolver ever made.
My recommendation is to get the Remmy clone, and watch for a Ruger. Not one or the other.

Also, visit 1858remington.com. It is a forum dedicated to all cap and ball revolvers, but especially (as the name would suggest) the '58 Remmy clone.

[Knarley]

Pietta makes good revolvers, I have several. I know I'll get some back lash, but personally I would avoid the brass framed guns. (I have two that are now in the "parts" bin) You will need pure lead for the balls that are just slightly oversized for the chamber. You want to have a small ring of lead shaved off when seating. That will help prevent a chain fire. Hard lead is a pain in the butt to seat. The loading press is a good idea. It serves to help make loading a lot easier, and since the cylinder is out of the gun, you can wipe down the cylinder face to help keep the fouling under control, and you can also wipe down the arbour.... gooey guns suck in the middle of a stage at a match......... or tourney.
Stainless or blued is up to you, remember you can't use steel wool on stainless, it will contaminate it and it will rust there. I prefer blued guns, they just look right.
SPG or TC bore butter work for lube, I mix them. SPG is a little thick when it's cold, and the bore butter is a tad on the runny side when it's hot. I have found that if one melts SPG and pours it in a small container ( a coffee can lid would work) about a 1/4 " thick and cut your own wonder wads they work great. ( I use the wad punch for my 45-70) I dust them with a little "Motor Mica" so they don't stick together.
BP works the best, FFFG you get the roar and the flames . Stay away from Pyrodex, hard to light and clean. Up grading the nipples depends on whether you are going to shoot in matches or not. But they will mushroom (The factory ones) eventually, when needed I'd upgrade. Soap & hot water will clean them up, dry them and a little oil and you are ready to go. Remember to take the nipples out and make sure THEY are dry and oiled too. You will need a good nipple wrench of course, and a box of pipe cleaners for making sure there isn't any gunk in the nipples.
C&B guns are a hoot to shoot, have fun with them..........
Regards,
Knarley

[country gent]

For target shooting plinking the army revolvers cap and ball do a fine job next step up would be a ruger old army for improved accuracy and strength better sights. If hunting is to be considered a walker model or one of the dragoons would offer heavier charges due to the longer cylinders. Alot depends on its useage. As stated above the earlier single shot horse or dueling pistols can be very accurate and alot of fun. The smaller "carry" revolvers alot of fun and enjoyable. The horse pistols ( Walkers, dragoons were used as a carbine and carried in saddle pomels around saddle horn or behind the rider sometimes both) are bigger hevier shoot heavier charges and sometimes are fitted with a removeable stock. As to cartrige guns a 44-40 or 45 Colt in a good revolver is alot of fun. A rifle in one of the true black powder cartridges is a ball but some really run thru powder and lead quick.

[Mad Mucus]

IMO you can't beat a Ruger Old Army for a cap'n'ball revolver.

I like .45 Colt BPC in a Marlin Cowboy leveraction rifle.

BigLube® bullets run best in BPR.

MM

[berksglh]

Stopped at Cabellas last night to compare the 58's with and without target sights side by side. Web listed a sale on the 58 with a spare cylinder for $249, but the gun counter guy couldn't find it. He said he had a similar unit, but no idea what it was. Was also on sale for $229. What the heck, let me see it.

When he opened the box, and pulled this out of the packaging all oiled up, I was sold. Just an amazing looking piece, pictures don't do the engraving justice.

Thanks for all the info and advice.
Dave

[mdevlin53]

If you go for a 58 cap and ball you can get a conversion cylinder and have the best of both worlds. shoot round balls or 45 colt both wit the black and have a ball.

[yeahbub]

Excellent choice, berksglh! The Pietta's have served me well, as well as Uberti's, but the best of either are the closed frame designs like the 1858 Remington. No doubt you'll notice the chambers are undersize, but close enough that soft lead will obturate to full groove diameter and good accuracy will result. As noted, a good BP-compatible lube will keep your cylinder running longer and I keep a bottle of Ballistol handy for that. A note on keeping nipple extraction easy; Remove the nipples from the cylinders, heat them to 150-200 deg F and anoint the threads with paraffin or bee's wax and reassemble while hot enough for the wax to still be liquid. The wax will fill and seal the crevices in the threads and even on a hot day, will prevent fouling from working its way in there and acting as thread locker, making removal very difficult. With wax sealed threads they'll come out pretty as you please. Same goes for breech plugs, sight screws, anything threaded, etc. on muzzleloaders.

As for BP substitutes, Pyrodex and 777 are oxidizer-rich and the fouling is corrosive, so you must clean it thoroughly right away or you'll have rust blooms that day in humid weather. I have used Pioneer Powder 3f equivalent and Goex Pinnacle (no longer made but you might run across it) and they are much less inclined to rust and they don't gum things up as quickly in my experience, but I'm not shooting continuously all afternoon. BP works about the best and some say they have little trouble keeping their pistols rolling.

Round balls are simplest but conicals are fun too, and more accurate for me. I follow Elmer Keith's method for accuracy and use an over-the-powder card wad of cereal box or paper plate material, a lube cookie of 5/4/1 beeswax/shortening/canola 1/8" to 3/16" thick cut with a .45 case and then the boolit. This provides more consistent lube than smearing it over the ball, most of which gets blown away by the previous shot. They both work, but I prefer mine stay put.

A vast improvement in loading speed is the paper cartridge. I make mine with those papers used in doing perms called "end wraps" or "perm papers". Thin and strong, they're a great place to start. You can see some excellent tutorials on the "cap and ball channel" on Youtube, the best I found is at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JIyc6s8fnQ. I make mine more consumable and humidity-proof by painting them with a thimble-full of smokeless dissolved in enough acetone to get a consistency like model paint, brush it on anywhere paper is exposed. Let it dry thoroughly and you have a more durable product. These make reloading in the field MUCH faster and more practical. Good luck with your new endeavor!

[Hickok]

I love the cap and ball revolvers.

I have always said that once you have mastered the cap and ball revolvers, can shoot them accurately and maintain them properly, then you can call yourself a "Shootist!"

I have both Remington .44 and Colt 1860 .44's and like them both, but the 1860 Colt .44 is my favorite. The grip and the way the revolver "points" is just perfect for me. It just has the "feel" that I like.

[GabbyM]

With a cap and ball revolver you have nothing else to buy. No load dies or brass. Just a twenty dollar Lee mold.

[FALaholic]

I have both the Remington and Colt revolvers both made by Pietta, and the finish and fit are very good to excellent. These things are an absolute joy to shoot especially with my 8 year old son ( he has learned to load them on his own). Building memories with my little buddy.

[alamogunr]

A vast improvement in loading speed is the paper cartridge. I make mine with those papers used in doing perms called "end wraps" or "perm papers". Thin and strong, they're a great place to start. You can see some excellent tutorials on the "cap and ball channel" on Youtube, the best I found is at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JIyc6s8fnQ. I make mine more consumable and humidity-proof by painting them with a thimble-full of smokeless dissolved in enough acetone to get a consistency like model paint, brush it on anywhere paper is exposed. Let it dry thoroughly and you have a more durable product. These make reloading in the field MUCH faster and more practical. Good luck with your new endeavor!

Do you have a link to the video that is mentioned in the above video that gives the dimensions of the mandrel and template for the paper? I've looked and can't find these specific items.

I had never considered paper cartridges until I watched that video. It is a lot simpler than I had imagined.

[hpdrifter]

and to screw with people at the range, but would rather have a dedicated BP gun.

heck yeah, you could tell em it needs new rings.

[Jim K.]

Cleanup would be the big thing for BP guns. Ballistol is a great lube or cleaner. I shoot the Frontiersman category in SASS and have found a few things that makes things easy.
One of the best is to have a mix of rubbing alcohol, hydrogen peroxide, and Murphy's Oil Soap. Mix 1/3rd each in a spray bottle, spray it on and just wipe the fouling off.
Be careful not to get any in the cylinders of the revolver.

[yeahbub]

Alamogunr, it's in the vids by the Hungarian fellow, but I can't recall which one right off. He mentions his starts at .30 dia. but no further details like taper angle are clearly specified. My mandrel is 5/8" diameter hardwood, .35 dia at the small end and .44 dia at the 1" mark and the taper continues up to full diameter, allowing me to make adjustments as to where to start the cartridge. It looks like an oversize pencil with a blunt end. This allows leaving the paper long and wrapping it over the boolit and leaving a "pull tab" tail like he mentions in the video, no glue needed for the boolit. You may have to play with it some to get the right volume to still get all of the boolit into the chamber. This is less of a problem with compressible substitutes like Pioneer, but real BP is less forgiving as to how much crush you can get. Once you settle on the load you wish to use routinely, you can experiment with mandrel dimensions.