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Thread: Re- Run MiHec 311410 - Brass Cramer HP

  1. #81
    Boolit Master
    xacex's Avatar
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    I would stick with the sizes offered. If another dimension is wanted separate it in a different group buy, have the designer re-do the dimensions and send it off to Mihec, or NOE if Al can/would try to cut something like this. With the thin nose, and hollow point I believe this cast bullet was revolutionary. I know it presented a challenge to Mihec. For those who do not have this mold I would suggest grabbing whatever is already available by Mihec, and size/coat to achieve the desired sizes needed. Mihec has already worked out the production of this mold as offered in the original designs.

  2. #82
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    A new direction? .....(it's still a discussion thread!)

    +1 on the opinion that MP-311410 is a revolutionary cast boolit,
    with its Carbine heritage modified towards use in a traditional .30 bolt rifle.

    But why re-work it just for the diameter?

    If those who want the .314 diameter MP-311410 want it for 7.62x39,
    and Xacex has used MP-311410 successfully in the 300BLK,
    where it could "use some tweaking" as he has said…..

    Maybe the best direction to go in would be to modify the MP-311410
    into a .311/.314 geared specifically towards those cases.

    Let’s say we start with the OAL that Xacex found to work best in the 300BLK,
    move the crimp groove back to the case mouth and make it very very shallow,
    and then lengthen the body and adjust the driving bands
    to put the boolit base at the bottom of the case neck.....

    The result might be about a 140 grain supersonic boolit for 300BLK which would
    fill the gap between the 130s and the 150s, feed reliably, hit like a varmint round,
    and the body of the boolit might still provide some penetration.

    Do you think something like that in .314 would work just as well for the 7.62x39?

    With Xacex as an adviser, perhaps we could get Longbow to draw it up.
    I think a .311/.314 diameter MP-311410-BLK could be a real winner of a boolit
    and, of course, sell like hotcakes too.

    But, I could be wrong.....
    .

  3. #83
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    I cannot advise. Information I can give includes COAL for the blackout I use, and where it would be .25" at the rib of a GI mag. As much as I would like to help design the bullet I do not have the background to account for more than the bullet shape. Longbow drew up the original design by Dannix so I would contact them about a re-design.

    The original design works well, and a heavy crimp is not desired, or necessary for the blackout so the crimp groove location is only cosmetic to me. However, this was originally designed for the 30 carbine where it would make a difference. On the x39 the crimp location is suitable along with other calibers. If you are looking at creating a 300 blk specific bullet then yes, a design re-draw could improve on the design, but you would miss out on some of the other calibers that this would attract otherwise. For me anyway, I find crimp grooves unnecessary for what I shoot cast bullets in, but I also do not own a single revolver, or rifle that a crimp may be necessary for. I load to position in the throat, not to a predetermined position dictated by a groove in a bullet.

  4. #84
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    I am still interested in this mould. My cartridge OAL is only limited by magazine length and I believe it to be somewhat generous. 140 grain suits me fine. 7.62x39 case neck is about .235 and the 300 Blackout case neck length is about .265, pretty close maybe? COAL is 2.200 vs 2.260. Might be able to get one to work well in both.

    What I have for sure is a CZ m527 bolt 7.62x39 where bore size is stamped on the gun as .311.
    "To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth." —Theodore Roosevelt"

  5. #85
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    It appears then, that the MP-311410 is likely to be re-run sometime, but only in .311 and .316.
    .
    Last edited by Cord; 04-24-2016 at 12:08 PM.

  6. #86
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    I am happy with what the design is, and have found it is the best option available for the blackout regardless of the crimp groove location in this weight class. Another option would be to work with Mihec on doing a Harrison x39 design with this hollow point. Al at NOE has cut that one before but in a 150 grain without a crimp groove at .314" , but he seems to only do a hollow point with a meplat of .20" and never did a hollow point in that design. If mihec can do a hollow point on that design with the thinner pins of the 311410 that brings the mouth of the hollow point to the pin you could have one heck of a multi purpose bullet. However, you would need to use modified p-mags with the ribs filed, or specific 300 blackout mags to get rid of stacking because the the ogive intercepts the ribs more than this design does. But, it would work across a wide field of rifles. I would propose 3 sizes .311, .313, and .316 with corresponding nose dimensions, or a .311, and a .314.

  7. #87
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    I would like to be in, but cant write a blank check. I haven't ordered from him before. What does the cost look like? I have some samples from Xacex, I would like the mold.

  8. #88
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    Scout800a, Mihec sends an invoice via paypal only when the molds are done, and ready to ship. This was the cost of the last run,

    "4 Cavity: $160 including shipping, all pins (small round, large round, and blanks), top punch and allen keys
    2 Cavity: $115 including shipping, all pins (small round, large round, and blanks), top punch and allen keys."

    Costs are variable slightly up or down depending on the euro exchange rate. I would expect once approved by Mihec the cost of this run will fall in line with the cost of the last run.


    Looking through some old post I found YunGun posted his results with a 30-06 a while back. Not many people have shown their results with this one, but by all accounts it does shoot better than the Lyman original which was not known for accuracy.






    From this post; #134 http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...0-Cramer/page7
    Last edited by xacex; 04-11-2016 at 12:32 PM.

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by xacex View Post
    Another option would be to work with Mihec on doing a Harrison x39 design with this hollow point. Al at NOE has cut that one before but in a 150 grain without a crimp groove at .314" , but he seems to only do a hollow point with a meplat of .20" and never did a hollow point in that design. If mihec can do a hollow point on that design with the thinner pins of the 311410 that brings the mouth of the hollow point to the pin you could have one heck of a multi
    Now THAT would be a GREAT bullet... an Ed Harris 7.62x39 HP!

  10. #90
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    At this point we probably still have serious buyers for a re-run of this design,
    along with some who desire a diameter that may not be available from M.P.

    I am not alone in thinking we should ask M.P. to authorize an active thread for a
    re-run of the MP 311-410 and go with whatever he wants to make on his terms,
    to get this thing rolling again.

    This thread has over 5,000 views so interested buyers are probably already there.

    At the same time, we could start a new discussion thread dedicated to a re-design of this,
    or the Ed Harris boolit, to see if we can come up something for either the BO or x39
    that can generate enough interest to launch a completely new group buy.

    If we make a list of all the accurate boolits known to function well and combine
    the best features of each into a new, if only slightly different, design for semi autos
    that would be produced in a brass Cramer HP mold we could have a very big group buy.

    It might possibly lead to two different designs, each optimized for its own cartridge,
    and to my way of thinking that would not be a bad thing.
    There are several specific designs for heavy BO subs, why not for BO supers?

    Does this sound like a good idea to anyone?
    .

  11. #91
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    Help me choose between the pb or gas check.

    Primary function is for a hollow point that will expand at 800-1100 fps.
    With accuracy.
    May have to push it a bit harder but see how it goes.
    What was the verdict last time around??.

    I plan to try paper patching it (hollow point) for decent velocity and soft alloy for the red mist effect if the hp can take sizing down to .301 ish with a nose first sizer.

    I don't think a gas check will help me as I can bevel the pb with a pencil sharpener or knife edge if I have trouble with the patch over the base.

    Any reports good or bad be appreciated.

    twist will be 1:10 at this time.

    Thanks Bruce

  12. #92
    Boolit Buddy cumminsnut76's Avatar
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    All right I have been looking at this thread too many times not to just completely commit. I'm in for a .311 gc version standard pins will be fine for me.
    "Life's tough......It's even tougher if you're stupid."
    -John Wayne

  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYBushBro View Post
    Now THAT would be a GREAT bullet... an Ed Harris 7.62x39 HP!
    I believe so as well. Not a perfect fit for the blackout, but an already proven design that would work better on medium game than the 311410, and improve on the characteristics on game by replacing the spire point with a hollow point.

  14. #94
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    My intent with this boolit was a lightweight plinker that was easy on lead but would "blow stuff up" when shot from my .303's.

    That worked out exceptionally well and for barrabruce, I went PB because I am cheap and lazy and for the most part wanted to shoot PB boolits. I figured if I couldn't push it fast enough to do what I wanted I would make a PB gas check maker for those occasions I wanted higher velocity.

    I am happy with mine! Mind you I load over COW/graphite filler too for my .303's.

    Longbow

  15. #95
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    Thanks longbow.

  16. #96
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    Results?

    I bought one of the originals with the intent of taking a turkey with it during the fall turkey rifle season in Colorado about 2012. However, things didn't work out for this adventure. I would like to hear from all who have used this bullet to take game or even just good target groups. I wish to validate the "design" of this boolit.

  17. #97
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Not sure if I saved a target or not. I'll have to dig around some.

    Hearsay only but it shoots as well or better from my .303's than the NOE 316299. I've gotten 1 1/2" groups at 50 yards from an old milsurp "sporter". I'll look for a target... or maybe shoot another one which would definitely be more fun but time is limited these days.
    Last edited by longbow; 05-06-2016 at 08:18 PM. Reason: spelling

  18. #98
    Boolit Master Electric88's Avatar
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    I would consider snagging one of these molds if it goes active. .. it'll just depend on when it goes active

  19. #99
    Boolit Buddy YunGun's Avatar
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    Here's a couple more pics to whet your appetite...
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	MP311410smallHP 30-06 21.5gr 2400.jpg 
Views:	70 
Size:	66.4 KB 
ID:	169371 Click image for larger version. 

Name:	MP311410, 30-30, 30-06, fired.jpg 
Views:	72 
Size:	90.1 KB 
ID:	169372 Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Casting MP311410 ShortPins.jpg 
Views:	64 
Size:	49.8 KB 
ID:	169373 Click image for larger version. 

Name:	MP311410smallHP_Round2.jpg 
Views:	71 
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ID:	169374
    ..and a bump for a great product!

  20. #100
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    I had hopes this re-run would happen fairly quick as it's the only mold I reeaaallly want & don't have. Starting to look like I'll die before it comes to fruition though.
    An old Cherokee was teaching his grandson about life. "Inside me two wolves fight," he told the boy.
    "One is evil - he is anger, envy, greed, arrogance, self-pity, resentment, lies, false pride, and ego. The other is good - he is joy, love, hope, serenity, humility, kindness, generosity, truth and faith. The same fight is inside you - and every other person, too."
    The grandson thought for a minute and asked,"Which wolf will win?"
    The old Cherokee replied, "The one you feed."

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check