Guidance for a new reloader - .45-70 Sharps with Lee Loader

[horseman308]

I recently got a Pedersoli Sharps in .45-70, and a friend/mentor who was cleaning out some of his stuff gave me a Lee Loader and a box of 300 grain cast lead RNFP bullets. They mic at .458"<br />
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I've been reading up, and it seems lots of people here really like the little Lee Loader, especially for beginners, so that gives me some confidence. I know it comes with all the basics to size a case neck, decap and prime, charge, seat a bullet, and crimp (if necessary). My intent is to use up these bullets as a learn the process. I've got about 200 of them. I plan to start with smokeless powder and then probably move to black powder once I have a solid handle on the process. <br />
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Up to this point the only reloading experience I have is 20+ years in my past running .45acp through my dad's Dillon press after it was all set up. So, for all intents and purposes, I'm a total newbie to reloading cartridges (muzzleloaders I'm good, but this is new territory). So any guidance will be most appreciated. Here's my plan, but please offer guidance, cause I'd like to keep my face and fingers!<br />
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1) Get a manual - suggestions?<br />
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2) lots of folks suggest IMR 4198(?) or Accurate 5744 loaded to trapdoor springfield pressures (~15k CUP?). I'm open to thoughts. I also will be getting a good digital scale.<br />
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3) CCI large rifle primers. Would large pistol work?<br />
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4) For cast bullets I believe I need to flare/bell the mouth of the case. Keeping in mind that this thing is hand-held and I don't have a press, what are my options for flaring a case properly? Would a chamfer inside the case mouth work instead? From what I gather, crimping will not be necessary for a single shot rifle, but will the bullets stay seated without?<br />
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5) Do I need to lube the cases? If so, with what?<br />
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6) Can I get away with cleaning out the primer pocket only, or does it usually require to mess with the flash-hole, too?<br />
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7) Since I don't have a tumbler either, can I clean the cases with just powder solvent? I know with blackpowder you can use hot water and a little soap on the insides, but I read somewhere you're not supposed to get the insides of the cases wet with smokeless. Is that true? If so, do I just ream in out with a bronze brush?<br />
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I guess that's all I know, or at least all that I'm aware I don't know. Anyway, I'm all ears. The thing seems pretty easy once you have all the stuff, but I don't want to make any mistakes.

[jugulater]

for the 45-70 id use Larger Rifle primers only, due to the big cartridge. when it comes to manuals grab three or four different ones if you can, ive found it very helpful to have multiple sources directly on hand.

with a lee loader i doubt you will need to lube it but lube will definitely help a good bit. i use Hornady unique case lube, it comes in a little tub and smells kinda like soap.

you will need some way to expand the case to keep from deforming the boolits when seating them, maybe look into a lee hand press and a Lyman M die?

with smokeless you can probably get away with rubbing the cases down with a rag and just cleaning the primer pockets.

the boolits should stay put by neck tension alone.

As for powder 5744 is a decent choice for the big cases like the 45-70, other powders like trail boss work great too. you want to find a load that fills up the case a good amount and doesn't recoil like a Anti-tank rifle.

also, Welcome to the forums! this is our little slice of the interwebs were we like to talk about everything related to boolits, even though sometimes we talk about those J-word bullets too.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Welcome,,, and you lucked out with the Lee Loader for your first tools. If you follow the directions with the Lee Loader it will guide you thru the process.

Consider this: There are two phases to reloading ammunition. There is Case Preparation, and there is the actual Loading of the Case.

The Lee Loader is for reloading the cases.

Lee also sells several case preparation tools which are inexpensive. I would suggest getting a simple Case Trim tool ($10) and Case Mouth Chamfering Tool ($5) to start with. You can use a pair of Needle Nosed Pliers to Flare Case Mouths for cast boolits.

You can clean cases many ways and you don't need a case tumbler to do it. You can use hot water with some citric acid mixed in and it will clean them nicely, and a wet Q-Tip works for cleaning the Primer Pocket. Citric Acid is available at any Health Food Store and it's cheap.

Manuals are nice to have and Lyman 49 is a good place to start, and it has a section in the front that explains all the facets of reloading the different cartridges. All the steps are the same whether you do them with a Lee Loader or a High Dollar Press.

As far as a powder to start with, AA5744 is as good as it gets for Cast Boolits in the .45-70.

Once you understand what each of the Reloading operations do then you can branch out to other equipment. Other equipment will help you reload faster but you probably won't make better stuff than you can with the Lee Loader.

Good Luck!

Randy

[Wayne Smith]

Since you are loading for a single shot you don't need to crimp. All you need to do is straighten out the expansion you did with the pliars. You may not need to size, some load BP with an unsized case and thumb seat the boolit - they find they get the best accuracy that way. I did with a Trapdoor. Don't be afraid of BP, a caseful is what you need and that is easy. Just make sure there is no air space between the powder and boolit - except maybe a card wad. Different BP's need different amounts of compression for optimal accuracy but they will all go boom with a case full to just above the base of the boolit.

Many a primer pocker was scraped clean with an appropriately sized screw driver. Don't worry about getting the shell casing wet inside (citric acid cleaning) just make sure it is dry when you load it!

[725]

Welcome aboard. You'll like it here. Good guys and good info. I'm in agreement with the above. The .45-70 is a grand cartridge to load for. I'd get the Lee reloading manual. It has good basic info, smokeless powder loads, jacketed loads, cast (as we like to say here,) boolit loads and since you are using a Lee Loader, it has a good info segment on that loader. Good case prep is the key to success, and caution with your loading data will go along way to keeping your fingers attached to your hand. It's not rocket science, but it is a precise endeavor and your skills will build as you progress. Follow manuals and don't drink in info from some 'ol boy's memory about load data. I've been on the line more than once when an improper load turned a rifle and a shotgun into shrapnel. Follow the book and it's as safe as any other sport. Good luck and don't be shy about asking questions.

[Don Fischer]

Don't switch rifle and pistol primer's. If I remember right, pistol primer's have a softer cup than rifle primer's and you will probably puncture them firing them in a rifle. The large rifle and pistol are the same size but quite a bit different. I suspect that rifle primer's are hotter to ignite slower burning powder's. That could jump pressure when using them in a pistol and pistol primer's in a rifle probably reduce pressure. When reading data in manuals always use the size primer's it calls for. Some brands of primers are hotter than other's so when developing a load, start a few grains below max, the heat of the primer can raise pressure.

[Wayne Smith]

Couple of specifics - the Lyman #49 or current, the Lyman Cast Bullet manual, and probably data from another source. I think it's Hornaday who now publishes it's data yearly in a magazine format - they are now at my local WalMart. I just got mine, I think I have all of them since they started this.

Yes you need to lube your cases to size them. I've recently (past year) gone to Bag Balm for all my case lubing, I enjoy handling the cases. I just get a little on my fingers as I pick up the cases. I just did 200 357 and 100 38special that way on my TrueLine Jr. It is formulated to be good for the hands and it works even for forming brass. Be sure to wash your hands after depriming, that dust has lead in it.

[country gent]

Several things to keep in mind with this starting out. The Lee loader works well with a mallet, an used arbor press is much easier and quieter with it. Lube cases before sizing lightly with a good case sizing lube. Start out loading small batches of ammo, a mistake is easier to fix in a small batch than a larger one. Buy several manuals the lyman cast bullets is good as is the regular lyman, If your going to try Black Powder the spg manual or Randolph S Wrights A Begineers Guide to Loading and shooting the Paper Patched bullet are very good also for manuals. Keep detailed notes on loads equipment used and all pertinant information so good loads can be easily repeated and poor loads avoided. A lee case trimmer, chamfering tool for inside and outside of mouths, A homemade dipper or set of lee dippers work well for powder charges, a scales to check powder charges is really handy. Most of the pedersolis 45-70s are 1-18 twist and seem to like the heavier bullets 480-550 grns over the lighter ones. Well written notes will be a big help starting out.

[gwpercle]

If the set came with the instructions, follow them. If not I'm sure some could be found online. Start there and with tips from here you should do just fine. A Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook is a good thing to have also.
Size of barrel is important for cast. Fit of boolit to bore makes a big difference.
Welcome to the club, many of us, myself included started with the basic Lee loader.
For case lube I like Lee case lube, it's not greasy.
Gary

[chutesnreloads]

My 1st loads were with a .38 special Lee loader.It came with a case flaring tool.Know 45-70 is a rifle cartridge but would think the flare tool would be appropriate in the straight wall case?

[mdi]

Lot of good info here; http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...60#post6218360

[W.R.Buchanan]

MDI: Thanks for the link. I signed up there. Looks like a lot of information there, like here.

Randy

[horseman308]

MDI: Thanks for the link. I signed up there. Looks like a lot of information there, like here.

Randy

It's a good forum. I've been there for a several years, though I've been inactive for a good while.

[Greg]

horseman-

Junior's been called to Heaven, but his website is still up (thanks to his daughter)
he was great at explaining stuff

here is an article on the 45-70 and a Lee loader...

http://www.castbullet.com/shooting/1871.htm

[W.R.Buchanan]

Sorry to hear about Junior. He was Special and I liked him!

Randy

[claude]

The large rifle and pistol are the same size

Actually, not factual. While the diameters are indeed the same, the highths are different which will cause a seating depth issue. Large pistol primers will seat to deep in rifle cases, whereas Large rifle primers will not seat deep enough in pistol cases, causing high primers.

http://ballistictools.com/articles/p...d-diameter.php

[smkummer]

For cases that were fired in your gun or new brass, the lee loader will work fine, in fact take it to the range and load ammo to experiment with what you want. I am pretty sure the 45-70 Lee loader does not size the case ( as its not listed as needing considerable force for sizing but I could be wrong) but will come with a flaring tool to expand and then the body of the "die" will crimp. Please wear glasses when priming with the lee tools.

[Bmi48219]

Not to change the subject but I'd like to hear more about how to clean brass with citric acid. Like how much per gallon or quart of water,? Just soak or soak & scrub? Rinse after? How do you dry when done?
thanks

[Lead Fred]

I guess that's all I know, or at least all that I'm aware I don't know. Anyway

Set a .030 veggie wad against the powder, then a tuff of pillow stuffing before the boolit

This fills the case when using smokeless powders. Some say yay, some say nay

Seems to work for me

[Wayne Smith]

There is a long stickie on citric acid cleaning.