30 cal handgun cartridge

[cumminsnut76]

Here in the near future I am looking at getting a short barrel (13-15") 30 cal barrel for my encore to shoot as a pistol during alternative methods deer season here in Missouri. What I am wanting to know is what cartridge should I get the barrel chambered for? I am looking for something in a shorter cartridge design such as the 30 herrett, or the 30BR or possibly the 30 Bellm that is lower on recoil. I know the 30 Bellm was specifically designed for handgun deer hunting out of encores and contenders, however I don't have any idea how it will perform with cast boolits and its short neck. I will be reloading for this and am not afraid of wildcats as long as brass and dies are available to form. I would like to have an effective range of 150 yds 200 max but most shots will be a lot less. any advice is appreciated.
Thanks
Cumminsnut76

[roverboy]

The .30 Bellm and Herret are both good cartridges. I had a friend (deceased now) that had a .30 Herrett and said it worked good in his 14" Contender. I think he killed a few deer with his.

[Nobade]

30-30?

-Nobade

[P Flados]

I went to the state website & found that the rules are pretty loose:

"Centerfire pistols or revolvers using expanding-type bullets, such as lead or copper"

For 30 cal hunting with an encore pistol, the 308 is the obvious standard choice. However, it does have excess capacity and I really would prefer a rimmed cartridge as it minimizes the chances of fumbling at a bad time.

I got my first 30 Herrett (a 10" contender barrel) back in the late 70s. It is a great little round for a 10" pistol. It is still a good round in a longer pistol, but it is more work than a 30-30 and there are other drawbacks.

For a 200 yd hunting round, I would want a 14" or 15" barrel. With long barrels, there is really not a lot of reason to avoid going with a 30-30. The "excess" case capacity of a 30-30 in a pistol is really only "excess" in the shorter barrels (10" - 12"). Also, with handloads and the encore platform, you should be able to push pretty hard (it will handle 308 pressures just fine) and you should be able to optimize powder choice and loads for the barrel length. For boolits, the extra long neck can be a real plus.

[bearcove]

Hard to beat a 30-30 for that. or a 30-30AI

[rking22]

Another vote for the simple 30-30. I have a 14 inch 30-30 as well as a 10 inch 30 Herret. I like both, but with the 14 inch barrell, the 30-30 is ideal. The 10inch 30-30 was kinda loud so when I found a 14 I grabbed it, haven't looked back. My 30Herret shoots the 311466 very well, and I have found that several of my new NOE 30 boolits fit, but that is not always the case with the 30H chambers. I have had both 10 and 14 barrells in both calibers and this is my chosen pairing, and I have had them since the mid 80s! Herrets are fun, but the 30-30 will do everything the 30H will do and then some (in a 14 inch tube).

[btroj]

309 JDJ. Easy to make cases. Lots of quality in barrels and chambering. Ability to shoot a 165 at 2350-2400 fps from a 15 inch barrel.

Shot an antelope at 235 yards in 2000 out in Wyoming. Lots of range work went into that. 2 inch or better groups at 200 aren't that hard off the bench.

[C A Plater]

There is also the 300 blackout if you want to play with suppressed subsonic loads and fairly cast friendly. I've got a Bergara Encore barrel I'm thinking of shortening to pistol length.

[cumminsnut76]

OK so now you all have me really thinking. I like the idea of a little extra powder in the 30-30AI but is it going to work effectively enough with boolits. Also prob only shooting 150 gn cast and lighter? Or would the plain 30-30 be better.

[Tatume]

309 JDJ. Easy to make cases.

This does not coincide with my experience. I've been shooting the 309 JDJ for many years, and I absolutely HATE making cases for it. Yes, the steps are simple; just lube RP 444 Marlin cases with Imperial Sizing Die Wax and run the cases into a 308 Winchester FL die. The frustrating part is the high rejection rate.

RP 444 Marlin cases are difficult to impossible to get, and are expensive. Throwing them away with neck creases troubles me.

If anybody were to make me a reasonable offer on my blue 14" SSK Contender barrel, I would let it go, with dies. Good cartridge, frustrating to form.

Take care, Tom

[ShooterAZ]

The .30-30 would be my 1st choice. I have it in a 14" barrel for my Contender, and it is a tack driver. There are faster more powerful rounds out there, but for simplicity the 30-30 is a great choice. Brass is readily available, and it's easy to cast and load for.

[sundog]

I'm thinkin' smaller case like a 30x35Mag, 30x357Max, 300BO, or 7.62x39.

Just a thought, if you do not want a smaller case, then why not bigger, like a 300 Win Mag

[RP3543]

I've got a 10" Contender barrel in 7.62x39 that was rechambered from a 32-20(.308 Dia). Very accurate and effective rig for deer hunting. I've always found the 14" barrels a bit cumbersome to carry, compared to the 10".

[Hamish]

While I have zero experience with any of the JDJ's except the 300 Whisper/BO, (100 yard deer pistol max imo), I would echo Tatumes thoughts regarding .444 Marlin brass and necking it down. The .308 Bellm has been wonderfully accurate, but when the last of the initial brass made for it goes, I will install a regular .308 extractor and be done with oddball expensive shenanigans in that barrel.

That said, as bt says, the 309 JDJ is a daisy for spanking a bullet,,,,,,,

While I have a long neck version of the .30 Bellm built on an XP, hands down, no BS, first, funnerest, and simple to procure and load in the Contender/G2 platform is the 30-30.

But since you're saying it's going to be an Encore, my advice would be a .308 barrel, in as long a length as you could stand it, over the .30 Bellm, long neck or not. WHOLE lot less hassle, dies are cheap and readily available, (CH4D Bellm set is right at $100 shipped), and it ought to be fairly easy to out perform the Bellm with the .308, ESPECIALLY when the projectile weight gets above 150 grains or so I would think.

IF I could have the choice here in Illinois that you have in Missouri, that would be what I would do.

On the other hand,,,,,,,. If the initial investment is not as critical a factor, then a more cast friendly necked .30 Bellm using un trimmed 7BR brass or better yet, the .444 brass option at whatever neck length you prefer, to be able to grab a rim in the cold with gloves on, would be a pretty cool option. That's just a question of ironing out reaming and throating with the barrel maker.

[leadman]

I have a 30-30AI barrel that with the muzzle brake it is 14" long for my Contender. I shoot cast in it all the time. The neck gives good support to the boolits and the cases seldom need to be trimmed. I would not hesitate to use it for a 200 yard shot on a deer. I haven't used cast in it for hunting but do use the Nosler 125gr Ballistic Tip and it works fantastic. Even with my short barrel I can get around 2300 to 2400 fps out of it.
Some of the members of Specialty Pistols have gotten over 2,600 fps with custom 14" to 16" barrels.
For years I would neck size with a Hornady 30 cal neck size die and when the cases need to be full length sized I used a 375 Win die. Lee starting making the 30-30AI so I bought a sizer die from them.
It works great for cast loads from 1,100 fps to almost 2,000 fps depending on the boolit.

[M-Tecs]

For an Encore I would go 30/30 or 308. I have Contenders in 30/30. In the past I owned both the 30 and 357 Herrett. Fun at first but I shot them a lot and I got tired of the brass forming. For a small capacity case I would look at a rimmed 300 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2...k-357-wildcat/

The 30 Bellm uses 444 brass and that is currently very hard to find.

[Hamish]

Attachment 157536Attachment 157537 Sorry about the upside down. Don't know how to fix it.

OK, left to right:

Short empty is a fire formed an trimmed, 1.4" .30 Bellm, originally R-P 7 BR REM.
6mm Norma BR, necked out with fire firm load, 1.52".
Formed case, un trimmed, 1.505" (shrinkage when blown out).
Original dummy case, formed from .308 W, used in chambering my long neck variation of .30 Bellm using 30-06 AI reamer, 1.5315".

I went about the project kind of bass ackwards, (no offense bass!) knowing that
I had to shoot 1.4" brass to be legal to deer hunt in Illinois, but I wanted a cast friendly neck the rest of the year. I knew going in that accuracy with the shorter brass with jacketed would suffer, but, so be it.

imho, you've got two good choices.

1. Ask Mike Bellm to cut you a .30 Bellm chamber to accommodate full length BR brass. (IIRC, nominal is 1.6"). I think this is your smartest choice as you can discuss throating for specific projectile(s).

2. Either I or Mike supply Match Grade Machine with fire formed full length cases to make a barrel.

Anything I can do to help, just ask,,,,,,,

[M-Tecs]

Thanks. I was not aware of the rimless version. http://www.bellmtcs.com/store/index.php?cid=106

[nannyhammer]

Another vote for the 30-30AI. I've only shot mine using 125 grain Ballistic Tips but I easily get 2450fps with my loads and based on some other folks data I'm don't think I'm pushing them hard. Furthest I've shot a deer with it was 102yds and it performed well. Brass is easy to find/form and tons of bullets to try.

[Hamish]

nannyhammer, could you give some more on your set up and load info? I've wondered about improving my 30-30's.