Just to stir the pot...I have a very old box of Remington Kleanbore .38 Special 158 gr. STEEL jacketed roundnose ammo. I won't shoot it, it's old old and too interesting to shoot it up. But, somebody back then saw a need for extreme penetration from the .38 Special. It might expand if it hits a brick wall, maybe not. I still think the SEALS have it figured out and they use (must use) FMJ. Get it in there, I say. Like the man said, "P is for Plenty". And placement.