History of the 38 Special so-called "FBI Load?"

[jonp]

S&W and Colt were making the large frame revolvers for Briton before the USA entered the war. US started acquiring them in 45 acp after our entry. The M&P revolvers in 38 Special. Either the re chambered ones or new models. Were the revolvers in U.S. Service before the conflict. SSA and Model 3's having been retired. What I don't know is how many of the 637,500 units of Model 1905 went to the US military. Probably not all that many. But there were zero Model 1917 in 45 acp in the hands of the US army before the start of our involvement in WWI. US bought some Colt New Service before WWI in 45 Colt. But I can’t find how many. 1911 was the new sidearm but it was in short supply. The M&P was a US military arm and remained so through both wars. S&W exported it to many nations before the war and knockoffs were produced. Turkey and the Slaves had 38 Specials. Of course we produced millions of various firearms in short order.

Just do a search of history on the M&P. Page after page will pop up.

I just read a history of the 45ACP Revolver last week or the week before on the SW Forum. Your post sums it up pretty good if I remember right. At the start of the war there were not enough 1911's in service and not enough could be produced so The Government in an uncharacteristic display of common sense asked Manu's to supplement production of 1911's with revolvers in the same caliber and SW came up with moon clips to make it happen. Later they changed the cylinders by reaming them with a shoulder to allow the revolvers to headspace on the casemouth to allow use without the half moon clips but there was still an extraction issue.

[Petrol & Powder]

eli
I agree with the others, gas checks are not needed in that application.
When you get that gun check it over for mechanical condition such as timing, hammer push off, etc. If you're not familiar with S&W K-frames there are lots of folks on this forum that are. Check the strain screw [located on the bottom of the front strap near the butt] that screw should be bottomed out and snug. You'll find a lot of used S&W revolvers for sale that someone has backed that screw out to reduce the trigger pull weight. That is NOT the correct method and that screw should be tight. Speaking of screws, if you're going to do any work on a S&W (or any other gun) get the proper screw drivers. You only need about 3 different screwdriver bits for most S&W revolvers and they're a one-time, lifetime investment.
Clean the gun and shoot it ! If you're happy with it great. If you want to re-finish it later on that would be an excellent candidate for a re-finish project.

I must warn you that the 4" DA 38 Special revolver is extremely addictive. They're inexpensive to shoot, accurate, easy to cast & reload for and deceptively fun. The addiction takes hold quickly.

Good Luck

[robertbank]

eli
I agree with the others, gas checks are not needed in that application.
When you get that gun check it over for mechanical condition such as timing, hammer push off, etc. If you're not familiar with S&W K-frames there are lots of folks on this forum that are. Check the strain screw [located on the bottom of the front strap near the butt] that screw should be bottomed out and snug. You'll find a lot of used S&W revolvers for sale that someone has backed that screw out to reduce the trigger pull weight. That is NOT the correct method and that screw should be tight. Speaking of screws, if you're going to do any work on a S&W (or any other gun) get the proper screw drivers. You only need about 3 different screwdriver bits for most S&W revolvers and they're a one-time, lifetime investment.
Clean the gun and shoot it ! If you're happy with it great. If you want to re-finish it later on that would be an excellent candidate for a re-finish project.

I must warn you that the 4" DA 38 Special revolver is extremely addictive. They're inexpensive to shoot, accurate, easy to cast & reload for and deceptively fun. The addiction takes hold quickly.

Good Luck

Great post and excellent information on the mainspring. Kicking myself for passing on a few Model 10's over the years. I have promised myself a 5" Model 10 is my next purchase. I just picked up a CZ 75 New Edition which has been my most recent "must have gun". Now thanks to a few, who know who they are, I now have an itch that has to be scratched.

FYI the RCMP still have a huge supply of Model 10's NIB in stores. They give them out to their dog men to use as training weapons for their dogs. I had the pleasure of shooting one before it went into service. The officers drive down gravel roads and toss the guns in ditches. Their dogs the go out and find them. The gun I shot on the range that day was turned into a piece of junk within two weeks. Made me cry.

Take Care

Bob

[Petrol & Powder]

"....The officers drive down gravel roads and toss the guns in ditches. Their dogs the go out and find them. The gun I shot on the range that day was turned into a piece of junk within two weeks. Made me cry....."

AHHHHHHHHH - PLEASE STOP !!!!!

[robertbank]

I wish I could. I even offered to give them a 75B to use. They really have no choice and I knew the answer but lets face it the guns are just tools and on balance if their dogs get better at the job we ask them to do we win.

Take Care

Bob

[eli]

Thanks for the feedback, I was thinking it would be OK without checks but this thread has been so informative, I had to ask the question.

I am sure Bubba has been into this revolver, two buggered screwheads on the right side, wrong driver tip. Mechanics seem to be good, though I might want to replace the barrel at some point. I'll get a gunsmith to give it the once over.

[9.3X62AL]

Those buggered-up screws can be replaced easily. Brownell's has all sorts of small parts for S&Ws.

I wouldn't be in a big hurry to change out that barrel, unless is has extensive pitting or trumpet-muzzle from cleaning rod damage. Even then, these revolvers can shoot remarkably well.

You did VERY WELL for $200.

[robertbank]

Man I am loving those grips.

Take care

Bob

[Windwalker 45acp]

I do too, in fact I like the worn and weathered look of the bluing as well. Leave it as is and shoot the snot out of it.

[Thumbcocker]

That gun has lived and could tell some stories I bet.

[FergusonTO35]

Loss of finish not caused by neglect is character. My 10-5 came from the estate of a Lexington cop. It has lots of honest holster wear but no rust and is mechanically like new. I bet it could tell some stories!

[fecmech]

I might want to replace the barrel at some point.

Unless someone screwed it up cleaning it as Al suggested I'm not sure you can wear one out. I shot PPC with mine in the 70's and 80's and when I sent it to S&W in the 90's for a gas ring it had over 48,000 rds through it. Mostly wadcutter but also about 3K GI jacketed ball in that mix. The repairman at Smith suggested a new barrel and I was going to have him do it but all they had were lugged barrels which I didn't want. He then suggested turning the barrel in one thread and recutting the forcing cone which he did. I have put many thousands of rounds through it since and today with good ammo it will still stay well inside the 10 ring on a 50 yd bullseye target off the bench. Lead bullets at .38 spl velocities are pretty easy on barrels.

[Petrol & Powder]

As others have stated, it's pretty hard to wear out a 38 Special revolver barrel. Unless it was abused it will likely be fine.

[MT Gianni]

Agreed, fast DA shooting will wear the hand and timing mechanism but the bbl should still be fine unless subjected to cleaning abuses.

[eli]

The barrel looks fine, no pitting, didn't see any bulges or excess wear areas. I have been looking at getting a 38/357 Ruger or S&W Model 60, with a long view toward a purchase, when I came across this revolver by happenstance.

We shoot .22's, short to magnum, .44's and .45acp but I primarily wanted a firearm my Rozeann could enjoy extended rangetime with and with enough umph! to make a difference in home defense, should she need it.
The change to a 4" heavy barrel would have been to put a little more weight forward for her, for faster recovery, period.

She is proud she can handle a.44 Super Blackhawk, but it's just not practical for a house pet.

And yes, this Smith & Wesson has a lot of character!

[Petrol & Powder]

Re-barreling a 4" K-frame just to get a little more muzzle forward weight would not be worth the expense and effort. The 38 Special doesn't produce much recoil to start with and unless you are an exceptional shot, the difference in recovery time between a heavy barrel and a standard barrel is almost imperceptible.
I have examples of 4" K-frames with both heavy and standard barrels and they shoot equally as well. The muzzle forward weight of the heavy barrel may help steady the gun for some shooters but it has been my experience that most female shooters do better with the standard barrel.
The 4" K-frame chambered in 38 Special is one of the all time great hand guns! That design has endured because it does so many things so well.

[Bigslug]

A fine ruddy lot of enablers you guys are!



Turns out my NOE 358429 drops at about 160-161 grains with the HP pins installed when using 25-1 rendered from jacketed range scrap. 6.7 grains of HS6 in .38 cases ran a tad over 900 fps in a 6" gun, and about 870 in a 4" one. Didn't get chrono data for the 2", but got other good intel from that.

Shot a row of milk jugs with the 6" and the 2" for the recovered slugs above. Both stopped in jug number four and had 83% and 84% weight retention on both.

Makes me a happy camper!

[9.3X62AL]

Enablers-R-Us.

[Tim357]

Ok, so I found this old thread. The subject is near and dear to me. Thanks for all the great history and the stories. Lots of good stuff here.

[M-Tecs]

Ok, so I found this old thread. The subject is near and dear to me. Thanks for all the great history and the stories. Lots of good stuff here.

I had forgotten about it but I enjoyed re-reading it. Miss the days when threads like this were common.