Custom rifle won't group

[fatelk]

Well, I bedded it, best I could. I think it turned out OK. I opened it up some, removing some plastic giving the epoxy some room and surface to bond to.

I wouldn't have had time to go to the range with it myself anytime soon, but he just let me know that he shot several groups with it and the groups were noticeably better with only one flier out of several groups. He said it's good enough now, but I do have to wonder how it would shoot in a different stock.

He had previously tried using cardboard in the barrel channel to apply some tension, but the forearm on this stock is so flexible that all it did was shift the same terrible groups.

[fatelk]

More specifics for you guys: looks like an amateur bedding job took this rifle from an inconsistent 3 moa rifle, to a fairly consistent 1.5 moa rifle.

We were hoping for a little better but maybe that's not meant to be with this stock. I mentioned that a nice laminate Boyds stock might tighten it up some more, and he was open to that option in the future. In the meantime, 1.5moa is good enough for huntin'.

[HangFireW8]

More specifics for you guys: looks like an amateur bedding job took this rifle from an inconsistent 3 moa rifle, to a fairly consistent 1.5 moa rifle.

We were hoping for a little better but maybe that's not meant to be with this stock. I mentioned that a nice laminate Boyds stock might tighten it up some more, and he was open to that option in the future. In the meantime, 1.5moa is good enough for huntin'.

You might find a tiny bit more accuracy with a lot of work, but I wouldn't spend any more time on this stock. The owner can live with 1.5MOA (good enough for 270 distances), or he can pony up for a quality wood or synthetic (not injection-molded) stock.

[fatelk]

He wants it to be as light weight as possible. Anyone know of a good quality light stock?

[Texas by God]

Boyd's has the lightweight option where they mill wood out of the butt and forend. On a light barrel I would full length glass bed the new wood stock.Best, Thomas.

[Blackwater]

Fatelk, good to hear it helped. One thing to note, even now, is that when shooting it, be VERY careful not to hold the forend with ANY sideways pressure on it when shooting a flexible stock. I find that a light touch with rifles like this usually helps accuracy, and a friend who sights in over 300 rifles a year for others has had the same experience. In fact, the more lightly you grip a gun while shooting from a rest, the better your groups may be, usually. Nothing gets an "always" when it comes to shooting, because there are so many variables, but maybe this might help some too? Really good shooting is something we all have to learn to do by experience, and it can take a good bit of it to really get it down. Just hope this helps. Looks like you're on the way towards getting it all worked out.

[nekshot]

the boyds ria and the light weight treatment is as light as you can get one with out making your own.

[Geezer in NH]

Custom rifle and Houge plastic or over mold stock does not compute.

Lightweight rifle and great bench shooting gun does not compute.

Nicehunting rifle getting 3 inch groups with the Houge does. Most hunters would never notice the diff from 1 inch or 3 inch groups in the field.

[facetious]

Thank you for your fallow up. Your success has inspired me to go a head and try and do my Ruger boat paddle. I saw a gun at the store with a Houge stock and it was easier to twist that my boat paddle.

On mine I smoked the action and then put the stock on and off and could see that the recoil lug is touching on the bottom and all most doesn't touch on the face. It looks like there was some shrinkage on the face that the recoil lug hits so that it only touch's on the vary edge of the lug.

I like 44Man's idea about bedding a tube in to the forearm I have seen stuff like that surfing around reading every thing I can find on this. I have some 1/2" aluminum thick wall tubing that I can use.


Blackwater: could you tell why you do not use the release agent that comes with the acuglass jel?

If I shoot ten shots and through out five flyers I have a 1 1/2" group. If I can get 1 1/2" groups with out all the flyers I would be happy. If it works I will post how it went. But it may be a bit, Trying to do to many things at the same time.

[Blue2]

If it has already been commented on then I will say again. All kinds of issues can cause poor groups and to attack the Hogue stock or bedding may be the problem. I would suggest putting on a scope of proven quality and setting the rifle into a different stock and see what happens. If it doesn't shoot any differently then I would take the rilfle to a different "smith" known to build good rifles on Mauser actions and get the barrel removed to check and see whether the threads were fitted well and if the barrel had been fitted to the inner ring in the action as most military and production large ring mausers are . Or if the smith trued the front of the action to the bore of the receiver and then fitted the barrel to the front of the receiver as an "accuracy". Smith would do. Then inspect the threads for proper fit and did the gunsmith screw up and use a 60 degree profile thread instead of the correct 55 degree profile. If a 60 degree profile was used to cut the threads then you are wasting your time with anything else-- this has to be redone and rechambered if you have enough diameter at the breech to do so.

[ironhead7544]

The trigger can make a big difference in groups.

[Blackwater]

Blackwater: could you tell why you do not use the release agent that comes with the acuglass jel?

Sure. I once bedded a M-700 for a good friend, using the stuff that comes in the kit, and that's the only gun I've ever glued in! What the stuff does that comes in the kit is, it dries, and forms a thin layer of a soft plastic-like stuff as it dries. You can actually peel it off. Somehow, after prepping the metal with the kit's release agent, and getting the bedding compound in place, that thin, soft skin of "release agent" apparently tore, and allowed the bedding compound to glue that action SOLIDLY into the stock, so you couldn't take it apart for a thorough cleaning, like when it got wet on a misty or rainy day. After finally using a mallet and more authority than I wanted to to get it apart (tried freeaing it 4x with no luck!), the stock cracked right where the forend drops down at the action. The crack was @ 3" in length, and I was able to fix it with crazy glue so it was only visible if you knew it was there and knew where to look, but my buddy is VERY particular about his guns, and wound up trading it off, though it shot sub-MOA after the bedding job.

Since then, I've simply found myself unable and unwilling to trust that thin-skin stuff, and have been using shoe polish in a pinch, applied well and rubbed in, or Johnson's Paste wax, and have never had the slightest problem since. I just don't trust that thin-skin any more. Getting an action glued in, when that's not what you want, can be a real beast to contend with. I just switched over to the JPW/shoe polish and have been very happy and content since then - and have never been embarassed by an unintentional glue in either!

Just my experience. I'd used it before successfully, and some have never experienced a glue in. I did and I simply can't trust it any more. "Once burnt, a lesson learnt!" YMMV.

[Blackwater]

Amen to the trigger. How you hold the gun can, too. Any variation in pressure or pull on forend, and against buttstock on shoulder, and any twisting or variation in canting of the rifle CAN and DOES often affect group size, too. So can the hardness/softness of the bags you're shooting off of. Guns always shoot away from any hard rest. Shooting itty bitty groups is a talent that has to be learned for most of us. And it's all about doing EVERYTHING the same way every time we lay a gun on a bench, from that moment until we walk downrange to see how we've done. In general, the more lightly you hold a gun, the more easy it is to shoot good, consistent groups. With hard kicking guns from @ .300 mag. on up, you HAVE to hold the gun a bit firmly to keep recoil under control, but even then it should never be what would legitimately be called "tightly." Many grab a rifle in a death grip, and this is poison to good shooting. The gun should essentially just lay there as lightly as possible, and one has to learn to pull the trigger without moving the barrel at all. This usually calls for a reasonably light trigger to do most successfully, but for hunting rifles especially, it's easy to get them TOO light, which is very unwise.

If you really want to learn to shoot up to your rifle's potential, whenever you see someone doing some really fine shooting, ask them if they'd teach you how to do that. Occasionally, they'll turn out to be less than cordial, but usually (almost always?), they'll be glad to teach you if you'll just listen. Personally, I've gotten rather tired of trying to teach folks how to shoot only to have them say, "Well, I don't do it that way, I do it THIS way! How can I shoot like you do and keep doing it my way?" When I tell them they can't, and explain why, some of them have the gall to be offended with ME! Some folks just can't or won't listen, because I always TRY to explain WHY it's done the way it is. Sometimes, it just falls on deaf ears, and that's frustrating and a waste of my good time, and it's offensive to me that folks would do that, when if they had the least thought at all about it, they'd know how foolish it is to act like that. Welcome to the "new milenium," I guess????