Wanting to start loading BP Cartridges

[wildwes]

Hi everyone, I've been scarce on the forum for a couple of years, I've been spending time on some of my other hobbies and working an ungodly amount of hours since I started teaching high school agriculture in 2013, but I've started getting back into reloading some lately. Like the title says, I want to start loading some black powder cartridges. I've been wanting to for a while and haven't had the equipment to do it. Which brings me to my next question- what do I need to get started? I am not new to reloading by any means, nor to shooting black powder, but I am totally new to BP cartridge loading. I have a press and a die set for the 3 cartridges I would like to load- 45 Colt, 45-70, and 44-40. I also have lubrisizers and molds to do my own casting, but for now I'll probably buy them. My problem is that I don't really know what else I need to buy to get started- I know that I really need a powder measure, and maybe a compression die, but what else do I need? I've read a lot on the subject, but I'm looking for experienced input from all of you folks who do this, because just starting out I'd rather not buy a lot of extra equipment that I don't have to have. If I enjoy working with BP I can always buy that stuff down the road when money isn't quite so tight.
Sorry for the long post, and thanks in advance for any help that you can give,
Wesley

[smoked turkey]

Hi Wesley. I will only be able to give you the benefit of a relative newbie to BPCR. Thankfully for you there are folks here that have really been there and done that. They will be along shortly I am sure to give you some very good advice. Meanwhile welcome to the world of BPCR. I have loaded for my 45-70 Ruger No. 1 and my 45-120 C. Sharps. I have used mainly real black KIK brand powder. In my 45-70 about 60-62 grains by weight of real black will fill the case such that when slightly compressed with a 0.460 cardboard wad (called a veggie wad). Note that real black goes by weight where if you use a black powder substitute it will be by volume. The way I started loading for my single barrel was to have just enough sizing on the mouth of an empty unprimed case to hold the boolit with a moderate amount of tension. I load the dummy into the chamber and gently push on the case so as to seat the case fully in the chamber. At his point the boolit is engraving the rifling when seated and this will be the max overall length of the cartridge with that boolit. In my case this was an RCBS 45-405 boolit sized to about the groove depth of .459 from slugging the barrel before hand. I gently tap the case and boolit from the barrel and carefully note the C.O.A.L. Using a sized, primed case with the neck slightly flared for lead boolit seating, I physically place the boolit beside a case and mark the base of the boolit on the outside of the case. This represents the uncompressed depth of black powder I will place in the case for this boolit combination. I fill the case to this depth and weigh and document the weight of black powder for future loading. I return the black powder in the case and then I place one of the veggie wads over the powder and gently compress the wad and the black powder to the depth noted before hand. This case then gets the boolit seated so it just rests on the veggie wad. This is just the starting point for my initial loading to see how everything works. You may find that your rifle shoots best with the boolit just slightly backed off the lands of the rifled barrel, or you might have improved accuracy with more compression. You can make this load development as long and complicated as you want and virtually never get finished with load development. It is all in how you want to approach this world of BPCR. This is the basic way I approached loading for my single shot 45-70 and will vary based on the cartridge and/or firearm you are using. Good luck and enjoy the process.

[country gent]

Welcome Wesly Loading black powder cartridges isnt alot diffrent than others. Several things are size as little as possible to hold the bullet and chamber easily, much easier on the brass and gives slightly more volumne. Clean and size cases, I remove case lube after this step. Prime. Standard primers normally work well, some may use a primer wad of newspaper or tracing paper. Charge cases with a powder charge to fill case to base of bullet or slightly more than if you feel the need to compress the powder. Compression should be done seperate of the bullet. A dummy bullet can be made under sized diameter same form and the sizing die used to compress powder. This can be made from hardwood aluminum steel or brass. The bullets used in these cartridges are normally soft lead and swell or deform with medium to heavy compression. A card wad is used to protect bullet base. These can be cut with a punch from playing cards, gasket materials cork, milk cartons, tablet backing, and many other materials. The bullet is then seated down onto the wad snugly. Items or tools nice to have are. A hand decapper ( allows decapping before sizing and washing). A true compression die to compress powder to proper depth. Saves reetting the sizing die. A drop tube 18"-36" in length to initally put the powder into the case. A powder measure rated for use with black powder, scoops or dippers will work also. One thing is to use a bullet lube compatable with Black powder and its fouling, SPG is very good Emmerts can be made at home easily also. The SPG loading manual covers the step by step and gives good information.

[Mk42gunner]

When I was loading for the .43 Spanish, I didn't have a compression die. I loaded the powder through a drop tube that I made from a ~2" piece of 3/8" copper tubing. An old aluminum arrow shaft would probably work as well.

I also recommend getting the book "SPG Lubricants BP Cartridge Reloading Primer" by Mike Venturino and Steve Garbe. It deals mainly with rifle calibers not handgun; but it is good info, if somewhat dated now.

Robert

[chill45100]

1+ on the 3/8" 2 foot copper tubing. That is my drop tube also. Soldered a 3/8 to 1/2 adapter on the end to go over the cartridge case and taped a powder funnel on the other end. Not elegant but cheap and effective. You can get by with a piece of dowel just small enough to fit into the case to compress the powder. Put a spacer under the adjusted seat die to prevent crimping and trim the dowel until you get the compression needed. Again cheap and it works.
I used a powder scale and homemade dipper for a couple of years. A smooth rimed spoon can be used in place of a dribbler to get the charge to final weight.
Milk cartons and file folders provide most of my wads. Yes I broke down and bought a punch.

Chill45100

[BrentD]

+1 on the drop tube and compression dies, and blackpowder lube. If you go for the Venturino and Garbe book be aware that some things have changed from the recommendations they made back then. Chief among them is mild primers over magnums now. Some use large pistol primers, but any good large rifle is fine and won't damage anything like pistol primers might.

For drop tubes, the aluminum arrow suggestion is a good one as is brass tubing from a hobby shop. Get a brass stopper on the bottom of the drop tube so that it sits on top of the case mouth and prevents powder granules from bouncing out.

Knowing how to manage fouling is another issue once you have them loaded. Wiping between shots or blow tubing are going to be very helpful while you play with loads.

If you can find it or order it (lots of mail order houses will ship to your door), you will be happier with Swiss 1.5 or 2 Fg than anything else.

[w30wcf]

Good advice from our fellow enthusiasts. I load b.p. in both the .44-40 & .45 Colt.

I wrote about my experience in reloading black powder in the .44-40. The same would apply to the .45 Colt.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...Powder-Journey

Have fun!

w30wcf

[Springfield]

Reloading 44-40 and 45 Colt can be vastly different than loading 45-70 for long range. Usually much easier. For pistol size cartridges mostly make sure the lead is soft, and there is enough soft lube. And make sure the case is full, no air space but you don't really need any compression nor a drop tube, not for basic pistol ammo.

[rfd]

bp loading can be intimidating, but it's really not, nor is it a hassle for fouling control or cleaning. there are LOTS of m&p for to use and most are at least good.

for my 45-70 and 40-65 loading i only need a fire formed case and a compression press die, no other dies needed. for new brass, i use a straight wall expander (in a press) to simulate fire forming. as long as the bp fills the case and touches the bullet, the rest is in component select and compression testing. i've never seen bp loading instructions that were perfectly complete - one would do well to seek local one-on-one assistance to drastically shorten the learning curve and make good rounds, then the fun/work really begins to make really accurate rounds that a particular rifle will like best. enjoy the journey!

[wildwes]

I sort of went away for a few weeks, between all of the chaos of school getting out, and then spending my Christmas break working on the clutch on one of my tractors and with family, I haven't really been online much at all.
After reading everyone's posts, it sounds like I can get started without an extreme amount of equipment beyond what I already have. I know I need to get some literature on reloading with bp, and it sounds like if I want to save myself some hassle a compression die would be nice to have. I don't mind putting some money in my tooling, I just don't want to go crazy and buy a bunch of stuff that I'll never use. As far as the suggestion to use a rimmed spoon to dribble powder, that is exactly what I have always done with smokeless, except I use an empty 12 gauge hull and tap the powder out, I just never have broken down and bought a powder trickler.
If I want to make my card wags out of milk cartons I won't have any problem obtaining them, I'll just ask my students to bring me their cartons from lunch, I can get as many as I want that way lol.
I had never thought of making my own drop tube, but making one out of copper would be very simple for me. In addition to soldering the adaptor on the bottom, I think I may try to solder a small aluminum funnel on the top of the tube instead of taping it, seems like it would work well. And I may try to pick up another lubrisizer just for SPG lube so I don't have to switch mine back and forth between lubes, I hate cleaning it out.
Most all of the bullets that I cast now are air cooled WW alloy, nothing added to it, just WW. Would this be soft enough for casting BP bullets, or am I going to need something softer? I have some pure lead around, but I really don't want to use it up if I can help it.

[Springfield]

Straight ww's will work, but I find softer is better. Gives you a little more leeway on bullet size, as it will bump up or swage down more readily.

[EDG]

With any kind of loading I think it is better to do a little reading and put together some ammo and go burn it up.
That will kind of give you a gauge of how much energy, time and money you want to commit.
If you get good results the first time all you need is a little refining of the process. If you feel it needs more work then you can do the research
and buy the rest of the gadgets needed. Loading and shooting the first batch gets you committed.

[rfd]

I sort of went away for a few weeks, between all of the chaos of school getting out, and then spending my Christmas break working on the clutch on one of my tractors and with family, I haven't really been online much at all.
After reading everyone's posts, it sounds like I can get started without an extreme amount of equipment beyond what I already have. I know I need to get some literature on reloading with bp, and it sounds like if I want to save myself some hassle a compression die would be nice to have.

yes, if you can, get one for yer press

I don't mind putting some money in my tooling, I just don't want to go crazy and buy a bunch of stuff that I'll never use. As far as the suggestion to use a rimmed spoon to dribble powder, that is exactly what I have always done with smokeless, except I use an empty 12 gauge hull and tap the powder out, I just never have broken down and bought a powder trickler.

i use a bp measure and then weigh every charge digitially. a good digital scale is relatively cheap, extremely accurate to .02 grains, and lots faster than an analog balance beam. instead of a powder measure, using a brass case with its primer hole plugged with a reversed spent primer works quite well, too.

If I want to make my card wags out of milk cartons I won't have any problem obtaining them, I'll just ask my students to bring me their cartons from lunch, I can get as many as I want that way lol.

that's just what i do, and works great. you might also wanna use a newsprint wad or two under the bullet.

I had never thought of making my own drop tube, but making one out of copper would be very simple for me. In addition to soldering the adaptor on the bottom, I think I may try to solder a small aluminum funnel on the top of the tube instead of taping it, seems like it would work well.

too easy to make. i used an aluminum arrow shaft and an aluminum funnel epoxied to one end ...



And I may try to pick up another lubrisizer just for SPG lube so I don't have to switch mine back and forth between lubes, I hate cleaning it out.

NO lubrisizer needed or wanted. i use a lee bullet sizer after the bullets have been cast, and sometimes don't size, and always DIP LUBED, then cut out with a resized brass case ....







lyman 457193 200 yard bullet ...


Most all of the bullets that I cast now are air cooled WW alloy, nothing added to it, just WW. Would this be soft enough for casting BP bullets, or am I going to need something softer? I have some pure lead around, but I really don't want to use it up if I can help it.

most folks are using a tin:lead alloy in the 1:20 or 1:30 range, no antimony. but do experiment.

LOTS to learn, lots to think about, many good ways to skin this cat and ya just need to find m&p that'll feel and work best specifically for you.

enjoy the journey, sir!

.............................................

[chill45100]

Dip lubed bullets work just as well as a lubrisizer for getting lube into the grooves. My mentor taught me to use a Lee push through sizing die that was honed to the diameter my rifle liked to be fed. Messy but an effective way to size bullets. Once I found the bullet and diameter the rifle liked I played with the alloy. For me 30-1 worked very well. An alloy of 94-3-3 with good results with the sizer to the rifles preferred diameter worked well with the Lyman Smitzer style bullet. YMMV.
Chill45100

[Knarley]

I noticed on your first post, you were wanting to load for .45 Colt. That is a very straight forward and easily loaded cartage. I cast mainly with WWs.
The only thing I will ask is what are you going to be shooting it out of? I shoot an 1894 Marlin. If you plan to shoot Black in that gun, you WILL become an expert on taking it apart and cleaning the whole action. Trust me on that one........... I shoot Cowboy action in the "Smoke" category.....I believe I could take my Marlin '94 apart, AND put it back together blind folded.
But it's a hoot!

Knarley

[Huvius]

Black powder in a 45LC is a hoot!
You're going to LOVE it!

[krems]

Grab a 7 1/2" Colt SAA in 45 colt and shoot it with a case full of 3f black and 250 grain slugs and then you have fired a mans gun!... HaHa..

Huvius,
what smelled better...the black powder or the cigar you were smoking?

[sdalcher]

That was a great, succinct post! Thank you for posting (RE smoked turkey's post) actually a lot of great information in the entire string.

[Huvius]

Huvius,
what smelled better...the black powder or the cigar you were smoking?

Definitely the cigar!
It was my first attempt at rolling my own cigars.
Eventhough they were far from perfect looking, they were good tobacco and very satisfying rolling by hand - kind of like casting your own boolits, making your own BP, and loading your own ammo.