.223 loads.....with j words

[vzerone]

I have to agree with Larry. Newton you're putting too much into how far off the lands the bullet is seated. Unless you're shooting competition benchrest don't be so anal about it.

You're going to get that wind drift no matter what material the bullet is made from. With two comparable weight bullets, and BC's, one cast and one j-word, but the j-word is at much higher velocity, then the j-word will have less wind drift. This is due to it having less time in flight to the target. The faster you get your bullet to the target the less time the wind has to act upon it.

[newton]

Oh, trust me, I am not trying to be a specific X amount off the lands. I just know that a lot of guys, a LOT of them, talk about the ~.020" mark. But I have no intention of trying it, I just wanted to be off of them to some degree. At this point, my load testing is complete as far as I'm concerned. I've reached every goal I had set out to accomplish. I'm sure in the future I'll play with different powders, bullets, OAL, etc - but it will be a while from now. I'm not even going to waste time or supplies till i get better glass. And since that's going to cost a pretty penny, it will be a while.

I'll love the day when I can take the gun and bughole them without batting an eye, but for now 3/4" or under consistently is fine for me.

[vzerone]

I believe that having a little distance off the lands is a universal safety rule. As said before you can load on the lands if you start very low and work your loads up.

There was an article in I believe Handloader a while back talking about what you are doing. They were talking too of bullet seating depth. Seating your bullet deeper gives you more velocity (this is without messing with the powder charge) because for one it decreases the volume inside your case thus increasing pressure which gives more velocity. In addition because seating deeper leaves more freebore travel you bullet picks up speed before hitting the rifling. Seating out further increases volume, decreases pressure, which decreases velocity. They touched on loading close to and into the lands. I wish I could find it for you.

I think your are doing very good by the way.

[newton]

Thanks. Yea, I hope this can be useful to others that might come along who have not realized their guns have such a short throat. If I had not seen the land marks that one time I would not have ever thought to recheck OAL. I tested it, but because of the things I've already wrote before, I did not realize that by using the loading manual OAL would be so far into the lands. I can see where seating out further would decrease pressure to a point, but then having a hard jam into the lands, they say, usually increases pressure.

[vzerone]

Yes you are correct in what you say. I was talking about seating out and NOT touching the rifling. Touching the rifling, if you change nothing else, would raise the pressure. Another thing that changes the pressure is a crimp.

[goryshaw]

For service rifle I just load Nosler Custom Comps, either 52 gr or 77 gr, to mag length 2.260 and have at it. They feed fine from Brownells 20 rd mags at that length and will hold the 1 moa X ring if I do my part. My PMags have to be loaded at about 2.20 to feed, so they aren't used for matches, besides they are long enough to make prone awkward. When the local 600 yd range opens again in April for XTC and mid-range I'll load some 80 gr Custom Comps and chase the lands, but for the winter 100 yd reduced matches the lighter bullets are fine.

[newton]

I got in some 50 grain soft points yesterday. They don't have a cannelure so it was much easier to find the OAL by letting the bolt push the bullet into the case. I was getting right at 2.175" OAL when the bullet is just touching the rifling. One time I seated the bullet out real far and let the bolt push it in, that ended with a bullet stuck in the throat and had to knock it out.

Very interesting, because again, if I were to load it to the OAL in the reloading manuals/data I would be jamming the bullet .030"+ into the rifling.

I've never been much concerned with trying to load at/near/into the rifling before with jacketed ammo I have always just loaded to book OAL. I have always checked, just to make sure I was not creating excessive pressure by jamming, and did try to get closer with my nephews gun because it had such a long throat. But I guess this just goes to show you that while you might not check the OAL to try and get close to the lands, it might be wise to do so in order to stay away from jamming a bullet into the lands.

I'm going to load some up tonight and shoot tomorrow morning if I get the chance. I am curious what the POI will be in comparison to the 55 grain loads.

[toallmy]

I have just begun my journey into the 223 rem as well , I am working on a savage m 12 , and found the same thing when working up a load . At first I used a marker to blacken my speer 52 gr hpbt match and thought I was out of the rifleing at a little over 2.20 , checked the speer Manuel ok it is a go . Well Sunday past I was at a friend's house trying it out , with 20 rounds in a ladder going up in 1/2 gr at a time with one 4964 all is well . Shooting better groups up and up I hit 25.5 and was gitting remarkable groups for me .stoped their but planning on going up 1/10 gr to see if it keeps improving. Well my buddy says we should find the max OAL for shore , so we go down in the basement and he pulled out his fancy little measuring set up , and goes at it several times then says why are you jamming them to start with. Well am shocked I thought I was well out of the riffling but was actually shoving them a about 20 thousands in the bore. I saw no pressure signes on the way up the ladder. Very surprised just hope the next round goes that we'll when I try it out seating them shorter.

[toallmy]

Sorry the powder was imr 4064.

[newton]

Yep. I did not think it was that easy to do, jamming the bullets that deep, but I think that the small diameter of the bullet does not create as much resistance as it would a 30 cal round. I bet you'll find less "fliers" and such, if you were having any.

[toallmy]

I hope so , but the weather is calling for rain all week, that and weighting on some more bullets from midsouthern has slowed me down. I think the 223 is going to be a lot of fun. Watching your post has been interesting.

[pacomdiver]

toallmy,
you must have a very short chamber or your buddy doesn't know how to use his chamber gauge, I load my bulk ammo (55 fmj) to 2.25 and it doesn't touch the rifling in any of my 223's (ar's , NEF and rem 700s,) checked with my hornady gauge

newton,
your inbox is full, I tried to reply to your message but it gave me the error message

[newton]

toallmy,
you must have a very short chamber or your buddy doesn't know how to use his chamber gauge, I load my bulk ammo (55 fmj) to 2.25 and it doesn't touch the rifling in any of my 223's (ar's , NEF and rem 700s,) checked with my hornady gauge

newton,
your inbox is full, I tried to reply to your message but it gave me the error message

I cleared some room. Grows on you I guess. I don't doubt his throat/chamber length. One reason I posted my experience. I doubted the need to seat deeper until I really started making sure of the OAL. Tested many times with two different bullets....same result. Guess they just ream some different than others.

[toallmy]

We checked the length 8-10 Times with the hornady over all length gage , and came within a few thousands every time. I was surprised .when I did it with the marker , I was gitting some side touches from extraction when I opened the bolt it would kind of start to eject and the round would touch and rub on one side on extraction. So that gave me a little trouble but I didn't think I was that far off. I have some loaded up at 5-6 thousands off the rifleing to try out , but I am using lee dies and length can and will change with them.

[toallmy]

Sorry bullet is Speer 52 gr bthp target match.

[newton]

I got to test the 50 grain SP this morning. Have to put a full 2 grains more of H4895 to get them to group well. Tried lower charges but the groups were not tight. But they shot great, 1/2" at 100 and 1 1/2" at 200. I think the big group at 200 is 99% my doing. VERY hard to hold still, and to focus on the target. It shoots right at 3320 fps average.

I think ill stick with the 55 grain bullets though. They might not shoot as fast but that's fine.

[vzerone]

You're 55's will carry farther ending up with more remaining energy. One of the first bullets I tried and stayed with in my 223 varminter bolt rifle is the Hornady 53 grain match hollow point. It just shot so good right off the bat I really didn't want to experiment with anything else.